Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Big Sandy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Big Sandy

    If the incoming storm floods the subways, won't that take out most of the utilities for New York City? I waited for a downtown subway at 6 am on a Sunday in August, and took this photo. It looks like there are lots of cables on the roof at this station.

    When I lived in Butte, Montana (1978-82) they said there were three thousand miles of tunnels under the hill. Once they let those tunnels flood it was never feasible to pump them out. I hope New York has more of a chance than Butte.


    Allan Ostling

    Phoenix, Arizona

  • #2
    Originally posted by aostling View Post
    If the incoming storm floods the subways, won't that take out most of the utilities for New York City? I waited for a downtown subway at 6 am on a Sunday in August, and took this photo. It looks like there are lots of cables on the roof at this station.

    When I lived in Butte, Montana (1978-82) they said there were three thousand miles of tunnels under the hill. Once they let those tunnels flood it was never feasible to pump them out. I hope New York has more of a chance than Butte.
    The same problem exists with the now flooded Berkeley Pit. There is no where to put that much polluted water and it is now leaching out into the water table. It really needs to be refilled with dirt.

    I recall during the post 911 tower collapse there was a great deal of concern of a wall collapsing that would have allowed the East River to enter the pit and then enter the subway tunnels that were exposed. The result would be every tunnel in Manhattan would have filled with water and likely stayed that way for centuries (my opinion). A 10-hour storm surge could do a lot of damage. Those tunnels carry a lot of power and data, not to mention air circulation systems, escalators, elevators, etc., that would ensure an easy path to the very lowest levels quickly. Down there, there is nowhere else for the water to go, so there it will stay.

    It reminds me of this disaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNo-gEPWVnM

    Comment


    • #3
      The London Underground has doors that can shut off the tunnels, presumably in case the Thames should ever enter the system. Maybe a relic of WWII concerns about German bombs.

      Comment


      • #4
        There was a show on just last week,only paid a little attention to it,but this very subject was discussed.

        There are flood doors and pumps and IIRC they said worst case if the entire system flooded it would take 30-45 days to pump it out.

        Of course the damage to the infrastructure would take longer to fix,but that's the price paid for putting it underground in the firstplace.
        I just need one more tool,just one!

        Comment


        • #5
          I found an image on the internet showing damage to a store front which I had photographed on 5 August. Here is 111 South Street, as I saw it on that hot summer day




          and here it is on the day after Hurricane Sandy





          I know a couple who live two blocks from the boardwalk at Long Beach, NY. They decided to stay instead of evacuate, and they boarded up the windows of their house. I don't see how Home Depot in NYC had enough particle board in stock for everybody who must have wanted to buy it.
          Last edited by aostling; 10-30-2012, 02:42 PM.
          Allan Ostling

          Phoenix, Arizona

          Comment


          • #6
            This looks like a promising solution to the problem of blocking storm waters from entering the subway tunnels. From
            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/sc...ml?ref=science



            Last edited by aostling; 11-20-2012, 09:59 AM.
            Allan Ostling

            Phoenix, Arizona

            Comment


            • #7
              Allan,

              That looks like a good solution, as long as the power doesn't go out.

              BTW, when I first saw your posting for the "BIG SANDY", I thought you were talking about the Big Sandy Wash up near Kingman. My Arizona property overlooks a big area of the big sandy wash.

              Brian
              OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

              THINK HARDER

              BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

              MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bborr01 View Post
                Allan,

                BTW, when I first saw your posting for the "BIG SANDY", I thought you were talking about the Big Sandy Wash up near Kingman. My Arizona property overlooks a big area of the big sandy wash.
                Brian
                I was thinking of that wash when I chose the title. I regretted my choice afterwards, but glad you know about that place. Your Big Sandy can go from dry to flood in a flash, swallowing up cars or trucks thinking they can get across.
                Allan Ostling

                Phoenix, Arizona

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by aostling View Post
                  I was thinking of that wash when I chose the title. I regretted my choice afterwards, but glad you know about that place. Your Big Sandy can go from dry to flood in a flash, swallowing up cars or trucks thinking they can get across.
                  When it rains hard in monsoon season, the rule is stay back. Way back. A rancher's diesel pickup ended up going in the drink when the bank washed out. Totaled it. The residents of our ranch that live on the other side of the wash tell me they are on a first name basis with the hotel operators in Kingman. They spend a lot of time there during monsoon season.

                  Brian
                  OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                  THINK HARDER

                  BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                  MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    big doors London Underground

                    Originally posted by The Artful Bodger View Post
                    The London Underground has doors that can shut off the tunnels, presumably in case the Thames should ever enter the system. Maybe a relic of WWII concerns about German bombs.
                    Yes Artful that is correct, These big doors were built just at the beginning of the last great war, by the Glenfield &Kennedy Co of Kilmarnock in Scotland , As a precaution in one part of the system where the river Thames could flood the tunnels, They are arranged to be cosed electrically or in the case of loss of power they can be very quickly closed by hand power

                    These doors i understand withstood a bomb blast on the river side, but held back the blast saving many lives

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It might be cutting it short, considering Herc Sandy's leadtime, but the plugging off of a tunnel has already been researched:

                      www.tamintl.com

                      and, www.baski.com

                      Could save feds reinventing the wheel, millions since 2007?

                      --G

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        These Thames Barriers (UK) would take some beating.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Barrier

                        http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&rlz=...w=1920&bih=884

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X