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Replicating a solenoid?

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  • Replicating a solenoid?

    This is the solenoid for the Spindle brake discussed in another thread regarding my Nardini 1230E.


    With it encapsulated within the steel part how would one go about trying to determine wire size and number of turns to wind another one?
    Byron Boucher
    Burnet, TX

  • #2
    Silly boy. A can opener!
    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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    • #3
      If you can estimate the cross sectional area of the coil itself, you might get close by using that and the DC resistance.
      For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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      • #4
        Well the last time I used the can opener I opened this can of worms. If necessary I can live without the brake but I would very much prefer to restore its functionally.

        ed_h The coil failed open.
        Last edited by Boucher; 11-08-2012, 02:05 PM.
        Byron Boucher
        Burnet, TX

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        • #5
          Assuming the coil potting is the only non-metal part of the brake magnet, put it in an oven set to max and burn out the potting/enamel. Then pull out the winding, count the wires, measure, and rewind.

          Did you see if the magnet is still available from the brake manufacturer?

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          • #6
            Another Question

            Is there any possibility that the steel housing could be heated enough to pop the coil out? Or the other direction could it be frozen and popped out?
            Byron Boucher
            Burnet, TX

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            • #7
              It's what, just over an inch deep? maybe press it out?
              You would have to figure a way of repotting to retain the concentricity of the inner to outer, so a jig may have to be made, when re-potting.
              When you pop the coil out, it can be sawed in two and the turns/gauge can be obtained.
              If the steel parts are all one then you may have to chip it out and just destroy the coil only.
              Max.
              Last edited by MaxHeadRoom; 11-08-2012, 02:24 PM.

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              • #8
                ed_h The coil failed open.
                Dang. That makes it harder.

                Do you know anything about the current/voltage ratings?
                Last edited by ed_h; 11-08-2012, 02:27 PM.
                For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Boucher View Post
                  Well the last time I used the can opener I opened this can of worms.
                  Very true, but it is your (our?) destiny!!

                  So, you must realize that you are now obligated to use your new found "opener" talents on beverages of you choice.

                  It helps the repair process start to ferment properly.

                  Dave

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                  • #10
                    Macona, The encapsulation looks more like an Epoxy than the wire type Enamel. It obviously has the enamel wire inside that. The brake is an integral part of the WEG motor built in Brazil before 1988. I haven’t had much luck navigating their on line manuals. This is the nameplate.


                    Another thing that I don’t comprehend is the label that indicates that the brake is 220V .

                    I can re measure the voltage but I thought it was much lower.

                    The encapsulation is in a steel ring so there is no access to the back side.
                    Byron Boucher
                    Burnet, TX

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                    • #11
                      Dave, I think you are right. Time for gentleman Jack and I to retire to the patio and watch the wildlife. The temperature is 80°F. Some earlier cooler temperatures has the Bucks chasing the Does. It has got to be 5 o’clock somewhere.
                      Byron Boucher
                      Burnet, TX

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                      • #12
                        Boucher--

                        You don't have much to go on here. Since the coil is toast anyway, maybe you can take a "core sample" with a smallish hole saw. This would establish the wire gage, and a way to estimate the number of turns.

                        You might also try some solvents to see if they would soften the potting. It will probably take something like Acetone or Methylene Chloride.
                        For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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                        • #13
                          Repair by replacement (new item)?

                          If not it looks like going without the brake.

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                          • #14
                            I would heat the potting to soften the material and start digging. Wind a new coil and cast it in place with some material like "bondo'.

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                            • #15
                              If you can find a solvent to 'disolve' the epoxy potting, it would probably be something you would NOT want to get very close to. I think ed_h's idea of the core sample would be the place to start so you can get an idea of the wire size, number of turns, etc. I would suggest heating the whole assembly up to 400-500F to break down the epoxy and then try digging the coil out of the steel ring and then go from there. You will probably find some kind of high-temp tape and possibly a bobbin or form that the coil was wound on. We wind coils (sorry, not the type you need) where I work, so I'd be happy to assist with how to get a new coil made.

                              There is lots of magnet wire listed on e-bay and a lot of it is the 200C rated stuff, which is what I'd recommend.

                              I also have a Nardini lathe (12x30) and have always had the question about what happens if the motor goes TU.... I'd be affraid to ask what a replacement would cost!

                              Craig

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