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  • 60 Minutes, Skilled Jobs Going Unfilled

    60 Minutes had a piece tonight (Nov 11/12) focused on skilled jobs going unfilled. Wish it would have been longer and more in-depth.

    Previous generation companies would hire and train. Now companies will hire but don't want to train, with expectations someone who is hired will be ready to go. Their logic, they interviewed both company owners as well as current employees (many of whom had been retrained) and potential future employees, was they are a company, not a school. Estimating it would take between 2 and 4 years to develop that skilled employee.

    One recent (I assume since the piece was first taped) retrained employee was hired based on where they were at in terms of being able to do specific work (manufacturing and skilled) and that the employer hires them based on having reduced the amount of training needed by the company. The quote was for $12 an hour plus benefits. Now I am not sure of how it is in the U.S. but are benefits another say 50% in terms of value of the wage? Are benefits a 100% more in terms of value? Asking because I just don't understand how someone can survive on $12 per hour.

    An interesting bit was how a company out of state, a ways out IIRC, was to purchase a particular type of used machine for manufacturing/machining and they found locally that there was not enough skilled labor. Their solution: buy the entire company who currently owned the machines, keep that factory open where it was (Conn.?) so they can make their parts and not have to wonder about finding a new labor force.

  • #2
    Russ, i just heard an interview about a new Chromite mine opening up in N. Ont,, but NOT untill 2016.

    They are going to hire 450 guys,,,, BUT,,, as of this date they have 1700 applications already in!!

    1700!!! That to me is amazing, being that this mine will not be opening untill 2016!!

    Mining in N. Ontario is at a BIG boom time!!

    My son is a mechanic at a gold mine that is still not open yet, (it opens in January,) and there are 1600 guys on site,, 1200 building the operation, and another 400 working for private contractors who have built their own shops up there on site.

    Wow,, $12.00 per hour, that is pathetic!!
    Mines up there are paying starting wages for trades of 35-45 bucks per hour,, they work 12 hour days, go 14 days straight , then come out for 7 days.
    A great place to go for young guys !!

    Comment


    • #3
      People are not going to go to school run up thousands in loan-debt, graduate and earn $10.50 an hour. That's $10.50 an hour plus probationary time and all that jazz before the employer starts sucking money out for the new High Deductible cut-throat off-brand insurance and other benefits. Then after probation they decide if they want to keep you on permanently or not.

      No one does around here, it's the same 20 companies looking for "entry level" CNC every four weeks. The pattern is very obvious. One group graduates from the local programs, the ads go up "JOBS JOBS JOBS ENTRY LEVEL CNC".

      Companies do not believe in training or investing 2-4 years in an employee because very simply... they do not intent to retain those employees and let them earn higher wages as they gain experience.

      My brother Liger Zero went through this for years before he saw the light.

      The shop I "retired" from started doing that and it showed in the quality of what we made.

      Between that and other issues I am glad I left and started my own shop. I can train people the right way and retain the ones who want to make a career.

      Not going to be a slave to "corporate think" ever again.
      "The Administration does not support blowing up planets." --- Finally some SENSIBLE policy from the Gov!

      Comment


      • #4
        Here is the "60 Minutes" item/article referred to:

        http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_16...ied/?tag=strip

        Comment


        • #5
          The same thing happens in the tech industry. Working for places like eBay, they would rather hire imported workers with an unverified diploma from a foreign university and no experience instead of a local with work experience.

          The sad part is that both will need training. I would say that 3/4 of the imported workers I worked with were unable to to the job when hired. Most of them had resumes so padded that they could be used for seat cushions.

          When I entered the corporate world in the early 1970s, the plan was to hire people with aptitude and attitude and train them to do the job. The benefits were tailored to keep people at the company. They trained and promoted from within. 40 years of work guaranteed a nice retirement for life.

          Modern companies want to hire people for the current project and don't expect them to stay around. The emphasis is on short term rewards. The training program is to hire talent from their competitors.

          I'd love to see a shift back to the old ways. My sons would sure benefit from it.

          Dan
          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

          Comment


          • #6
            That's a problem for "manufacturing" I guess, but any time I need skilled help (car, plumbing, electrical, building, concreting, engineering etc. etc.) I expect them to be fully trained and equipted ready to go when they arrive. Trainees/apprentices are OK as the Contractor (hired on a job or hourly basis) has his trainees factored into his quote/bid for the job.

            Many trainees are "pre-trained" here and ready to start at a basic level with basic skills which they are expected to improve on as they work their way through their traineeship/s.

            Comment


            • #7
              Let's see.............. 2 years of vocational training after high school, with accompanying tuition debt and time consumed for $12 an hour job versus 2 weeks at Starbucks barista training course, company paid, for about the same amount of wages. Hmmm................



              But anyways, many of the vocational schools of yesteryear were originally founded as company run/paid classrooms way back in the halcyon days, when men were men and steel was steel.
              Gary


              Appearance is Everything...

              Comment


              • #8
                Where to start.......... Lets just say we did this to ourselves by pumping the ideal that everyone must go to college. We took away any type of vocational learning out of public schools are replace it with Trig and expect everyone to become engineers, architects and rocket scientist. Just they have no clue what a wrench is, never swung a hammer or how to bend metal.

                I work in the Aviation Industry and for some of these kids coming out of school its the first time they have ever turned a wrench in their lifes. All of them know how to jailbreak thier Iphones, get free movies and beat Halo 4 in a few minutes but not a single one changes the oil in thier own vehicles.

                But on a side note my Brother-inlaw (computer geek) needed a plumber to come out and replace a toilet in his house. Plumber was able to charge $200 in labor plus parts. Got him for $325 after everything was said and done. Spent 2 hours there. Pretty soon a Plumber will make more than a doctor.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have been seeing this while looking for work. Employers want 2 and 4 year degrees for nothing and have such a long list of specific requirements that I dont think they can ever be filled. And I have seen these same positions open for almost a year. Heck, from what I understand, Intel pretty much wants a masters just to get in the door.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The big question is: "Where will the trainer's come from? All this short vision planing by the bean counters will get you exactly what you are asking for: quick savings for a short time. After that ... I don't give a da...
                    The government needs to step up because the country's survival is at stake - and never mind the idiots who constantly scream about "getting government out of my business". Greed rules and training costs money. There are no boats coming from other countries where training programs are in place. Only boats from third world countries with people who are hungry to operate the next "Seven-Eleven". Not much training needed.
                    The good part is that these people are hungry and are willing to send the children to schools - but not to learn a trade. There is no national plan to supply industry with the skilled help that is needed and industry is not willing to provide for it's own survival.
                    Our country should realize that a highly skilled workforce is absolutely essential for our survival and some things can not be achieved by having a market that is set up to run free without assuming the responsibility of providing for the future.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looks like I have a winner-----------

                      Oldest Grandkid--------Senior at UCDavis, 3.8X gpa studying pathology. Learned to drive the London DDeck for student operated bus system, working 20 hours per week to help Dad. Now a route trainer paying $21/hour. UCDavis is the original California A & M.

                      Not having enough fun so's going for a minor in enviro-geology which will take an extra quarter. Kid is bullet proof-------

                      --G

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yea I heard about the 60 Minutes article from my Mom earlier this evening.

                        Cry me a river...

                        Wages have been stagnant for over a decade and there's a bit of culture lag going on in the minds of typical employers. I hear it all the time these days - machinists, mechanics, welders positions just can't be filled because for example, "today's tech worker needs to be a scientist" since "today's" welders need to know metallurgy so they know what metals and welding rod are needed to attach specific types of metal together. Oh yea. And that is different than yesteryear only because the reporter and employer both seem to have absolutely no idea that yesterday's welder knew that stuff too - that hasn't changed whatsoever. The truth is they are offering $12 to $14 per hour and a skilled worker who knows his craft is already working somewhere else for at least a couple to ten bucks more per hour and won't waste his/her time even applying for that pathetic wage. The employers are out of touch as much as the bureaucrats. $12 or so an hour was almost enough to pay the bills about 15 or 20 years ago. Today that would fill your gas tank so you could get to work and back home I guess. Pathetic.

                        Since business people are supposed to be the ones who know about supply and demand, why are they so baffled that they can't get applicants for terrible wages? I gurantee they could get better applicants even if they offered $19 or $20 per hour. Maybe not wizards, but it would certainly broaden their choices of potential employees. Just a realistic inflation rate of 3% (and there have been spikes of much higher than that over the last 15 years) equates a $12/hr job of 15 years ago near $20/hr today and $15/hr back then equates to around $23/hr today. $12 to $15 per hour was an entry level wage 15 years ago, so today they should be starting at least $20 minimum. In fact, I was making entry level pay of $12 or $14 about 20 years ago, so that is no doubt conservative.

                        Tip for job searchers. the term "competitive wage" means the least amount they can possibly pay without looking like Scrooge compared to all the other bean counters in town. Don't even apply for jobs that use that term in their description.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My favorite;

                          My boss complained after spending 4 weeks trying to hire a guy to help manage the phone company's web servers and other internet facing systems. It was a fairly esoteric and demanding job at the time. The 3rd person had turned down his job offer.

                          He said in all seriousness "I just don't understand why no one is willing to accept market rate for this job."

                          A year later I learned why when I got an easier job paying 50% more outside the phone system.

                          Dan
                          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Guido View Post
                            Oldest Grandkid--------Senior at UCDavis, 3.8X gpa studying pathology. Learned to drive the London DDeck for student operated bus system, working 20 hours per week to help Dad. Now a route trainer paying $21/hour. UCDavis is the original California A & M.
                            Around here similar position would pay $8.50-9.75 an hour and be fulfilled on a rotating basis by a staffing agency, no joke.
                            "The Administration does not support blowing up planets." --- Finally some SENSIBLE policy from the Gov!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RussZHC View Post
                              60 Minutes had a piece tonight (Nov 11/12) focused on skilled jobs going unfilled. Wish it would have been longer and more in-depth.

                              Previous generation companies would hire and train. Now companies will hire but don't want to train, with expectations someone who is hired will be ready to go. Their logic, they interviewed both company owners as well as current employees (many of whom had been retrained) and potential future employees, was they are a company, not a school. Estimating it would take between 2 and 4 years to develop that skilled employee.

                              One recent (I assume since the piece was first taped) retrained employee was hired based on where they were at in terms of being able to do specific work (manufacturing and skilled) and that the employer hires them based on having reduced the amount of training needed by the company. The quote was for $12 an hour plus benefits. Now I am not sure of how it is in the U.S. but are benefits another say 50% in terms of value of the wage? Are benefits a 100% more in terms of value? Asking because I just don't understand how someone can survive on $12 per hour.

                              An interesting bit was how a company out of state, a ways out IIRC, was to purchase a particular type of used machine for manufacturing/machining and they found locally that there was not enough skilled labor. Their solution: buy the entire company who currently owned the machines, keep that factory open where it was (Conn.?) so they can make their parts and not have to wonder about finding a new labor force.
                              Simple: Its either they survive on $12 an hour or they survive on $7/hr at a min wage job or surive on $0/hr with no job. thats there choice.
                              Benifits in the USA are only thousands of dollars per month when they include *good* health insurance. Not likey to happen at a $12/hr job.

                              Nobody wants to train anyone. You should see programming jobs. "Must have at least 5 years experiance in each of: 19 diffrent languages, platforms and applications. Must have at least 10 years experiance writing enterprise level applications in an API/language that was released 4 years ago. Must be willing to relocate to nowhere and be willing to compete with indian outsource teams for wages"


                              No idea how anyone is supposed to get experiance when nobody wants anyone with less then 5 years 'on the job' and still pay them like they are fresh outta school.

                              Thousands of dollars Grind Hard? More like tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, Kids todays won't be able to make enough money to pay off the intrest on there student loans, let alone ever be able to buy a house.

                              Its a sad, sad prospect. Very easy to become a slave for life to debt by picking the wrong school/subject.
                              Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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