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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    To make spray can enamel really hard and stick well the parts should be baked at about 250F for an hour or until the entire part has come up to equal temperature. Do this after the paint is dry to touch. Then let it air cool until completely cooled down before touching it. An old kitchen oven in the shop works well unless SWMBO happens to be out of town for at least a week...
    I've done this on several occasions as per your suggestion several years ago. I've had great success with it.

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  • Evan
    replied
    To make spray can enamel really hard and stick well the parts should be baked at about 250F for an hour or until the entire part has come up to equal temperature. Do this after the paint is dry to touch. Then let it air cool until completely cooled down before touching it. An old kitchen oven in the shop works well unless SWMBO happens to be out of town for at least a week...

    Leave a comment:


  • vpt
    replied
    I like the brush on paints for machines. No overspray and thicker in one coat and stuff.



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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by lazlo View Post
    'Profesional' is a consumer marketing term. Like Dodge is 'Professional' grade. Anything you buy at Home Depot is a consumer product.
    Exactly That's why I chimed in and said that there was no difference between the "Professional" and "Stops Rust" products except for the dry time. Brian is using the "Professional" grade, not the industrial stuff.

    Brian responded:
    Fasttrack,

    The professional paint seems to me to have a lot more pigment in it. And a lot less propellant.

    Brian
    to which you replied:

    That's definitely true.
    But I think you and I both agree that it's not true for the "Professional" paint. I think there was a mix up along the way where you thought Brian was talking about the industrial paint despite the fact that the picture clearly shows it was the "Professional" stuff.

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post
    Lazlo, You've got the wrong product! Notice in the picture that the can is clearly the "Professional" product and I always referred to the "Professional" product.
    'Profesional' is a consumer marketing term. Like Dodge is 'Professional' grade. Anything you buy at Home Depot is a consumer product.

    By the way, the MSDS blurb you posted for the "Professional" enamel does not match the current one on the Rustoleum website. The current one shows >30% LPG and >15% n-butyl acetate.
    That's very possible. I have the can for the Rustoleum Industrial on my desk, and that MSDS sheet is from the SKU database on the Rustoleum web page. The 'Professional' series is hosted off their consumer page, and there are dozens of variants. That's the MSDS for Rustoleum Professional "Safety Yellow", SKU SKU: 7543838, from the Rustoleum consumer page here:

    http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGResource...CBG&msdsprc=95

    My point is that the consumer paints are much thinner, with much lower VOC contents, than the real industrial paints. MSC and McMaster carry the real industrial Rustoleum in pints, quarts, gallons and spray bombs for about the same prices as Home Depot charges for the low VOC Rustoleum Professional (consumer) product.

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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by lazlo View Post
    Wrong products. Rustoleum 'Professional' is a consumer product sold at Home Depot. More to the point, anything you buy at Home Depot (or any other Big Box store) is subject to consumer VOC requirements.

    Lazlo, You've got the wrong product! Notice in the picture that the can is clearly the "Professional" product and I always referred to the "Professional" product. As per my first response, there is no difference between the "Professional" and the "Stops Rust" products except the dry time. Also notice that in my first response I recommended the product you show above! The link was a link to the brush on version of the spray stuff...

    Originally posted by Fasttrack
    Rustoleum "PROFESSIONAL" :

    Thought you guys might be interested to know that there is no difference between the "Professional" and Rustoleum "Stops Rust" enamels except the dry time. I actually emailed the company a few years back to confirm this. I've never personally noticed a difference in durability or adhesion, either.
    And:

    Originally posted by bborr01 View Post
    I bought it at Family Farm and Home in Wayland. BTW, what store is it that you get the good price on golf cart batteries?
    Brian

    By the way, the MSDS blurb you posted for the "Professional" enamel does not match the current one on the Rustoleum website. The current one shows >30% LPG and >15% n-butyl acetate.
    Last edited by Fasttrack; 03-09-2013, 11:12 PM.

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post
    It's the same stuff but with a slightly different concentration of solvents. They both have the same amount of propane which is used as the propellant.
    Wrong products. Rustoleum 'Professional' is a consumer product sold at Home Depot. More to the point, anything you buy at Home Depot (or any other Big Box store) is subject to consumer VOC requirements.

    The Rustoleum Industrial series is only sold at Grainger or MSC, and has a yellow hard hat on the can.



    MSDS for the Industrial "Hard Hat" enamel: Notice the 20% resin content:



    MSDS for the Consumer "Professional" enamel. It's mostly solvent, with 5% pigment:

    Last edited by lazlo; 03-09-2013, 10:09 PM.

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  • Arthur.Marks
    replied
    Originally posted by bborr01 View Post
    Arthur, does the brush on stuff dry kind of dull on the first or second coat?
    Both the regular stuff and the "professional" stuff I've used for Rustoleum do not achieve a high gloss. It is more of a "sheen"? I always do two coats. The better finishes (and shine) come with three or more very thin applications. This statement is for the oil enamel which is brushed on. The funny thing is, the more tools I've refinished, the less I've come to care about extremely nice finishes These days, I tend to use a foam brush and apply two coats a bit thicker. The Rustoleum oil enamel is reasonably durable, extremely easy to find, not too expensive or require any special equipment. One thing I've noticed is that using primer seems to make the overcoat more chip-prone. I haven't used any primer since having that experience. I don't regret the decision. Rustoleum applied straight on bare, degreased and cleaned metal seems to adhere better, in my experience.

    As a side note, when trying to "match" an existing color, I've had similar results with the oil-based, Ace Hardware enamel. I get the impression every store has a color matching and mixing machine---at least, my local one does. They did admirably well with my color match.

    Lastly, the absolute best finish and wear coating I've had done is powder-coat. It costs a fair penny. They can also use fillers to create immaculately smooth finishes and the resulting coat can be buffed to a nice gloss. I don't miss the money spent because it came out so incredibly good, but I can't say it is an everyday option. You gotta pay for all that meticulous hand work, and if your piece is any size at all, you'll be paying for the oven to properly clean and then also to harden. You're also added with the complication of finding a suitable and good quality powdercoating shop. A can of Rustoleum is very appealing in light of that.

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  • ed_h
    replied
    Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post
    Where did you hear this?
    Fasttrack--

    I tried to go back to original sources on this "knowledge" about POR-15 and Rust Bullet. It appears that it was a belief I came to based on the moisture cure, and the fact that I thought is smelled like super glue. Thanks for calling me on this. You're right--both products are urethane chemistry. It's one less ignorance I'll carry forward.

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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by ed_h View Post
    They are cyanoacrylate paints--similar chemistry to super glue.
    Where did you hear this? To my knowledge, cyanoacrylate paints are different from urethane alkyd paints ("polyurethane paints") and the POR-15 website clearly states that it is a polyurethane paint. I believe the "same stuff as super glue" is a rumor started by the fact that both products cure in the presence of water.

    Under "advantages of POR-15" you will find the following passage (emphasis mine):

    "Eliminates the need for a sacrificial zinc primer system
    by creating a non-porous basecoat system using ad-
    vanced moisture-cured polyurethane technology."

    And under the section on "Concrete Surface Preparation" you will find:

    "POR-15®
    can be applied to a variety of substrates. As a
    single-solution moisture-cure urethane, it bonds concrete
    and blocks water and moisture."

    http://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/por15sum.pdf

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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by bborr01 View Post
    Fasttrack,

    The professional paint seems to me to have a lot more pigment in it. And a lot less propellant.

    Brian

    It's the same stuff but with a slightly different concentration of solvents. They both have the same amount of propane which is used as the propellant. The "Professional" series contains ~5% less acetone and about ~5% more butyl ethanoate. Acetone is a VOC exempt solvent so that is likely why it is used in the commercial "Stop Rust" series.

    I have also noticed a difference in the spray, but I think it has to do with the can or the tip. Duplicolor came out with their special spray tips several years ago and advertised that they had less over-spray and less finger fatigue. Like you said, these types of cans feel more like a "paint brush" or airbrush instead of the traditional "spray bomb".

    (by the way, I pulled all these numbers directly from the Rustoleum website. You can look at their technical data sheets or MSDS ... I'm not just making this up I looked at the DS for gloss black and both contain the same amount carbon black as pigment. Don't know about other colors, though)
    Last edited by Fasttrack; 03-09-2013, 09:46 PM.

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  • Guido
    replied
    'Rust Bullet'----'ya gets what 'ya pay for-

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  • ed_h
    replied
    I've used a high performance paint that's a direct competitor to POR-15 and based on the same chemistry. They are cyanoacrylate paints--similar chemistry to super glue. I sprayed it and it worked fine, but as others have said, if it dries on your hands or other places you don't want it, it will be there for a while. The dried stuff in the bottom of a transfer cup was a rock hard plastic.

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  • bborr01
    replied
    Originally posted by lazlo View Post
    That's definitely true. The reason there are separate Sherwin-Williams consumer and industrial outlets is because industrial paints are subject to different VOC requirements. Industrial paints are allowed to have a much higher VOC to propellant ratio.
    The regular rustoleum barely covers until you have 2 coats on it. This stuff covers completely with one coat. You can also see the difference on the paper under it. But the real advantage is that the shop is not covered in overspray. Almost like a paint brush in a spray bomb.

    Brian

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  • lazlo
    replied
    Originally posted by bborr01 View Post
    The professional paint seems to me to have a lot more pigment in it. And a lot less propellant.
    That's definitely true. The reason there are separate Sherwin-Williams consumer and industrial outlets is because industrial paints are subject to different VOC requirements. Industrial paints are allowed to have a much higher VOC to propellant ratio.

    Leave a comment:

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