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  • Glacern vs Orange

    Seems that Glacern have taken exception to Sols Orange Vise company and appear to have the legal eagles taken everything about it down.
    Even PM have had legal overtones telling them to delete threads about Orange Vise, thread about it here:
    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ou-say-262781/

    As someone over there said, they seemed happy being a competitor to Kurt, but don't like it when someone does the same to them. More involved than that I know, but don't think the adverse publicity is going to be helping them at all.

  • #2
    You blokes are welcome to vote with you're wallets. The only bloke down here with a Glacern vise. I'll be offering to under write the cost of sending it back. As long as it has a note to stick it up there arse.

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    • #3
      Once again PM drama carries over to HSM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by beanbag View Post
        Once again PM drama carries over to HSM.
        Pigs Arse. Did you bother to read the link / thread? It seriously envokes your ability to buy an Orange Vise. To the point Orange Vise have all ready pulled down their spec's, and can't sell you a new vise.

        All of which are Glacern's legal issue's. Care to tell me again how thats PM drama?
        Last edited by Machtool; 03-23-2013, 06:59 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Machtool View Post
          Did you bother to read the link / thread?
          yes I did and u better keep the drama over there unless you want george to get takedown notices as well.
          Last edited by beanbag; 03-23-2013, 07:57 AM.

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          • #6
            The drama will in all probability happen here as well - "Orange Vise" is mentioned/listed in at least 9 seperate threads here on HSM, including this one:
            http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...ht=Orange+Vise

            And it's not really about PM at all, not in the slightest.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by beanbag View Post
              yes I did and u better keep the drama over there unless you want george to get takedown notices as well.
              That would be almost funny, but given that Glacern are advertising here. I'd have thought George would have liked to have known, how they roll.

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              • #8
                My thoughts:

                A CA court order has little impact on this site, can't force the the owners/mods to scrub this site clean of Oranger Vise related posts.

                Secondly, Sol came on this site and asked our opinions of what we wanted in a vise, the only thing Glacern ever asked me was "Visa or Mastercard"?

                Sol seems to be making a decent product and wants customer input beyond how they intend to pay.... Orange has my vote

                V/R

                Mike
                Mike Hunter

                www.mikehunterrestorations.com

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                • #9
                  i dont understand ..

                  looking at the glacern videos ..Sol appears to be the owner oif glacern ..and the only worker there..one man band.
                  now he has another company ..and he is being sued by glacern

                  please explain

                  if sol made those videos ..then i think he should pursue a career..in that direction ..as he is a true master at that game for sure ..channels like the discovery channel ..i wopuld not surprised if they were cueing up outside his house ..



                  all the best..markj
                  Last edited by aboard_epsilon; 03-23-2013, 08:38 AM.

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                  • #10
                    I don't visit PM anymore because the site takes too long to load

                    For a long time PM has not seen my face around there. It takes minutes for any page to load. It is always stuck on something to do with the advertisements. Just a big white page.
                    Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                    • #11
                      It appears that Sol was an engineer with Glacern and left them to start his own company. I have no idea what his relationship with Glacern was, whether he was an employee or in partnership some how. Glacern's case deals with his using their intellectual property, and it seems they have obtained a court decision in their favor.

                      The question of their being able to force PM or other sites to delete posts relevant to Orange Vise is interesting, but I doubt they have much leverage to enforce it. The Orange Vise website is still active at this point.

                      http://www.orangevise.com/
                      Jim H.

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                      • #12
                        Its all crap. Its nothing more than a typical A-Hole (Lawyer) trying to lie and bully someone else. No judge would EVER create a court order stating the phrase "to whom it may concern" ... seriously ???? IF they got a judge to make a court order like this (about as likely as sending a man to Mars .... in a hot air balloon) it would go to the forum server co. They would pull the forum and instruct the mod to remove specific stuff before putting the forum back up.

                        This is why I think all lawyers, bank and insurance directors, and a few others should be "air dropped" into Afghanistan and told to "practice your trade" ... waste of skin

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                        • #13
                          Non Competition Clause ?

                          Their website does't have any active links to products. I wonder if there was a clause in Sol's employment agreement about not going into competition with Glacern for a set period after his employment ended. That could account for the lawsuit. Similar to what Buell went through with H-D*. As to vises I actually prefer this type. http://www.quad-i.com/products-vises.html One reason is the fixed jaw is at the front. That way when using DRO's and doing CNC programing if the stop is on the left side you are almost always working in the +/+ quadrant. It does help to eliminate some programing errors due to having to work in +/- or -/-. Yes I know that you can flip the Cartessian (sp) co-ordinates around but then you always aren't working in a vise on the mill. *The non completion clause not a lawsuit
                          Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stern View Post
                            Its all crap. Its nothing more than a typical A-Hole (Lawyer) trying to lie and bully someone else. No judge would EVER create a court order stating the phrase "to whom it may concern" ... seriously ???? IF they got a judge to make a court order like this (about as likely as sending a man to Mars .... in a hot air balloon) it would go to the forum server co. They would pull the forum and instruct the mod to remove specific stuff before putting the forum back up.

                            This is why I think all lawyers, bank and insurance directors, and a few others should be "air dropped" into Afghanistan and told to "practice your trade" ... waste of skin
                            I doubt very much that it was a lawyer who sent the email to PM. The court issued an order to Orange to do what was necessary to take its advertising and promotion off of, or out of all medial outlets. The order applies to Orange, and doesn't bind anyone but the defendants in that case. (This was apparently after the judge had made a factual finding that the people at Orange had stolen the design from Glacern.) The lawyers in the case understand that it applies only to the defendants in that case, and that the could be sanctioned by the court for mis-using its order. I would guess that someone at Glacern then took it upon themselves to send that to a bunch of websites where the defendant had discussed the Orange vices, to try to intimidate them to remove the discussions about the Orange vice. This is obviously a very highly charged emotional case for the people at Glacern. A lawyer would not send such a demand, because he would understand the first amendment implications. He would not send such a demand by email, would not lead it off with "to whom it may concern," (lawyers being intelligent enough to find the name of the correct party to address a demand to) and would put it on his or her lawfirm's letterhead, if indeed Glacern, a small company, does not have a Legal Department or Chief Counsel, as I suspect.

                            You see, 90% of the time that a lawyer gets accused of being an a$$hole, it is one of other two people who is actually the a$$hole: either the lawyer's client, doing something stupid like this, or, as in your case, the person doing the accusing. I am a lawyer, as are a number of others who contribute to this site, and I do not appreciate your ignorant comments.

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                            • #15
                              I will apologize for my comments, as it is not my intent to offend anyone. I am sure that there are many good people out there that are lawyers, and in actuality my distaste is more for the "practice" than the person. I have dealt with MANY lawyers, and in all my experiences they are simply only interested in the golden egg, and dont give a crap about the "person" in question. Nothing better than being on the crap end of a 10 year $800,000.00 lawsuit, where they didnt have a legf to stand on. when the judge finally said "get to trial or I will throw it out" they sent a message saying we are withdrawing the suit. Nice, 10 years, $80,000 in legal costs and for what? To defend myself from a huge corp just so they could play the "lets see if we can bankrupt the guy ?

                              Yea, they did about 15 years financial damage to me ..... So while I apologize for any comments I made that might have offended you, my views on the whole profession will NEVER be one of anything but contempt. The profession groups I mentioned have done nothing but cause more grief in this world than any thing else.

                              Again, sorry for my comments, as I judge people by who they are and how they interact with others, not what they do for a living. I will now head to my little shop, where everything works by the real rules of nature, if i make a mistake I pay for it (never pay for something i didnt do) and where mistakes can be fixed and lessons learned (that arnt the "CASH IS KING" messages of the messed up outside world).

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