Winters Drill Bit City - opening the box (USA drill content)

[jdunmyer]

DR said:

There could be a slight problem with sets of this type aside from quality. You generally choose a tap drill's size by the length of thread engagement. These type sets assume the drill size for you which is not usually correct for deeply threaded holes.

I have a set like this, but IIRC, I put it together many years ago from on-hand drills & taps, buying just the Huot box. It is a MUCH-used tool in my shop, I'm reaching for it all the time. No need to look at charts, just grab the drill & tap and go to work. I very seldom have to get out the tap & die set, usually it's because I need a die.

[mc_n_g]

It may have been me who referred to Max and Winters Drill Bit City.
I talked about it back in February.
My father in law has purchased 2 full sets and a Silver and Deming type set.
We have used them on stainless, steel and aluminum without any problems.
They are not cheap but they are very good quality.
The sets are very similar to Triumph with finish.

[Mcgyver]

I wonder why the seller would be secretive about the manufacturer of the drills. Wouldn't it be a selling point to let buyers know their origin if they're top quality?

imo he is absolutely going at it the right way. He's building his own brand, creating IP (intellectual property). There is great value in doing so and that accrues to him - he can sell the business, license it, extend into other products etc. If he went around saying they're such and such drills he's promoting their brand, not building his own and diminishing his value. ie first thing everyone would do is price shop for that brand. Finally, in building his own brand he retains leverage over his supplier - so long as he can get a quality of drill that meets his standards, he can buy from anyone meaning he's got some competitive power over vendors.

[DR]

Perhaps it's because this is how he makes his living and the last thing he needs is for someone to copycat him. He gave me a hint or two, but I don't think I should repeat them.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, that could be a reason for the secrecy. But, for $99 you would be hard pressed to duplicate the set purchasing one at a time.

Another reason I just thought of is the actual manufacturers don't want their names to be known. Then they don't have to backup the products with any kind of warranty leaving Winters to handle all that. That's quite a common practice, manufacturers producing an unbranded product for sale by others.

The bottom line here is if it works for you then it's an okay deal.

[Tony Ennis]

The taps say, for example, "SP Series 1/2-13 NC HSS USA CH3"
The fractional drills say, for example, "27/64 SP HS USA" (yep, HS)
The numbered and lettered drills say, for example, "U HS USA", where U is the drill size.

The set was $99.

I wonder why the seller would be secretive about the manufacturer of the drills. Wouldn't it be a selling point to let buyers know their origin if they're top quality? Same for the taps. The seller is providing an easy way to get sets, including a case. Presumably the total cost should be less than you can buy them by the each so why the secrets?

Perhaps it's because this is how he makes his living and the last thing he needs is for someone to copycat him. He gave me a hint or two, but I don't think I should repeat them.

[DR]

How much was the set? The number $250 was thrown out here, surely not that much, was it?

There could be a slight problem with sets of this type aside from quality. You generally choose a tap drill's size by the length of thread engagement. These type sets assume the drill size for you which is not usually correct for deeply threaded holes.

I wonder why the seller would be secretive about the manufacturer of the drills. Wouldn't it be a selling point to let buyers know their origin if they're top quality? Same for the taps. The seller is providing an easy way to get sets, including a case. Presumably the total cost should be less than you can buy them by the each so why the secrets?

What do the tap shanks say? They should have at least "HSS" and the "H" number, plus the "made in USA".

As you might guess I'm a skeptic. The impression I've gotten about sellers at shows, fairs, etc is they are somewhat the "bubba" type, generally their merchandise is NOT the quality they claim.

[Mcgyver]

You're correct Mcgyver - he's a distributor not a manufacturer. He really didn't want to say who made them but did mention that there weren't very many manufacturers in the US.

can't blame him and he's adding value being a good distributor, I was just curious.

Thanks for the thread as my next order for drill bits and/or taps will be with Winters.

For those behaving like trolls & bullies, there's another machinist web site where that behavior is appropriate, but not here. My recommendation, go out to the shop and do something productive even it its "just" cleaning up.

[Tony Ennis]

It looks like a nice set for a good price.

Why did he give you a 1/4" bit for eval?
Something different/special about that one?

No, there's nothing special about it, (though I suspect Max would say they're ALL special, ) His display includes several bins of drills, right on the edge of the table where people can reach in. I had mentioned to Max that I'd never used a good drill. He reached over into his bin-o-1/4-drills, pulled one out, stuck it in a ziplock-o-sales-information, and handed it to me. He encouraged me to use it, tell people about it, and call him to describe the drilling experience. He couldn't spend much time with me as his booth was swarming with people.

[MotorradMike]

It looks like a nice set for a good price.

Why did he give you a 1/4" bit for eval?
Something different/special about that one?

[Tony Ennis]

No, they are anonymous, at least to the untrained eye. The drills say "5/16 USA" etc. I'll go look at the taps later this morning. I suppose a ninja could garner information by looking at the font used, or some such.

[914Wilhelm]

So do the shafts of the taps or drills have any engraving hinting at their origin?

[Pherdie]

The bits in the image bear a striking resemblance to Triumph Thunderbits (Hanson's upper "heavy duty" line if I'm correct) which are sold by Enco, amongst others. I have found them to be excellent bits and have quite a few, including their Silver and Demming bits.

It's my experience that a good 115 piece set of bits will set you back $250+ on average. Amazon carries the Thunderbit sets too.

[Tony Ennis]

You're correct Mcgyver - he's a distributor not a manufacturer. He really didn't want to say who made them but did mention that there weren't very many manufacturers in the US. He said that manufacturers make all sorts of grades of drills and stated emphatically that his drill bits were high-end varieties. I sensed not one hint of dishonesty from Max or the bubba working his booth with him.

[Mcgyver]

when you say he 'sells only USA drills', I guessing as a travelling showman he's not the manufacturer and buys them from someone? Any idea who the drill bit manufacturer is?