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Cutting gears on a shaper...

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  • Don Young
    replied
    Wow! I am totally impressed with the engineering and craftsmanship shown in that machine.

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  • pgp001
    replied
    My Alexander master Toolmaker milling machine was rigged up by my late father to generate gears using the Sunderland type cutters.
    These have been seen before, but for those that missed them.









    Phil

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  • old-biker-uk
    replied
    MrFluffy
    The detent latch effectively locks the spindle to the division ring - lift the latch and the blank + PD disc can move in relation to the division ring.
    Mark

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  • Mark Rand
    replied
    Originally posted by dp View Post
    Every time I look at that vid it seems I notice something missed before. I like your tool holder - brilliant. Off to the shop to reproduce!
    The tool holder happened because the 3/8" HSS tool bent rather alarmingly on the first attempt. A bit of square bar cut to 3/4"x5/8" with the HSS Locktited into a slot made if far more rigid.


    Myford made their gears on a vertical gear shaper. No nibbling away at the blank, cutting slivers off though. That one wasn't big, but seemed to do a 60 tooth gear in about 20 seconds.

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  • MrFluffy
    replied
    Nice pictures, what defeats the detent on the indexing mechanism to advance it every stroke?

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  • old-biker-uk
    replied
    Working on the principle that 'A man ploughs with such oxen as he hath' I cut all but 1 gear for my geometric chuck on a very small, very elderly shaper.
    Some pics of the set-up here.

    Mark

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  • Rosco-P
    replied
    Originally posted by dp View Post
    How many vertical gear shapers do you own and operate in your home shop environment? What is wrong with building toys? Lots of people hear build them. Some would be better known as display pieces such as Brian's projects. What is the point of your rant regarding the versatility of horizontal shapers? Why get angry over this? People use the tools they have as a first choice. I have a shaper - I make gears and racks with it. I don't have a vertical gear shaper and don't make enough gears to justify the floor space for one. If I already had a vertical gear shaper that is probably what I'd use. Life decisions are like that.
    No rant, no anger. Maybe some people need to take their blinders off.
    First, I don't run a [I]home shop[/]. Second, I haven't seen a vertical gear shaper listed for sale close enough to drive and inspect it. It's also too complex machine to buy sight unseen. Without its change gears and hobs, you're hunting for parts. Last one I saw for sale was a #6 in SE Pa. Right price, wrong place. Would have been at least a three day trip, drive up, inspect, arrange rigging and delivery, oversee loading, drive back. As I tried to state (in vain) in my previous post, so many can't see beyond the end of the nose on their face. Maybe your horizontal shaper can make the gears you need, but a vertical gear shaper could make the gears other's need and earn it's keep, justify the floor space occupied, etc. A "hobby", could now be economically self-sufficient. That's what I would be aiming towards, but I guess that's not for everyone. Perhaps that's why I don't own a money pit, a.k.a a big boat.

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  • NzOldun
    replied
    Originally posted by John Stevenson View Post
    I have given quite a bit of thought to this process of not so much using a shaper but using a simple vee tool ground to 29 degrees or 40 degrees [ twice the PA of 14.5 or 20 degrees ]

    So imagine an X Y table with a rotary table [ A ] laid flat on top of this.
    The rotab holds the gear blank on an arbor so it's clear of the table to allow the cutter clearance.
    The rotab is driven by a stepper motor, the X axis is also stepper driven. Y could be stepper driven but there is no real need and it could be a screw and dial, it has very little to do.

    The XY table is mounted under one of those cheap arbor presses which has been converted to motorised drive so you have a vertical shaper.

    To use you set the blank central on the vee cutter mouted in the arbor ram, then move to one side. Depth of cut is put on with the Y axis and the machine started.

    The program is just one line of code that moves X at the same time it moves the rotab [ A ]
    Could be done with Mach 3 or even an Arduino. The blank passes from left to right [ or the other way ] and forms one perfectly geometrically correct involute tooth.

    When clear of the blank the rotab revolves 360 degrres / N teeth and starts off again.

    It will be slow but automatic and using a tool that cost a few pence. I wil also have the capacity to make specials like stub tooth and corrected teeth, all with the same few pence cutter.
    This is a very simple form of the old Sunderland gear planers, which used a cutter in the form of a short rack to generate the form by moving the rack and blank at the pitch line velocity while the cuteer was also oscilating across the blank face. The blank cutter automatucally iindexed a tooth every so often, so that eventually, you wound up with a full gear. Slow but quite accurate.

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  • John Stevenson
    replied
    Vertical gear shapers are rare over here, limited to Fellows and Drummond but what is more important is the tooling for them is even rarer.
    Ok to pick gear hobs up but shaper cutters are another kettle of fish.

    None listed on Ebay Uk and hasn't been for the last 4 weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by Rosco-P View Post
    Oh please...! Using "home shop" as justification for buying stuff that often serves no purpose other than to build toys.
    How many vertical gear shapers do you own and operate in your home shop environment? What is wrong with building toys? Lots of people hear build them. Some would be better known as display pieces such as Brian's projects. What is the point of your rant regarding the versatility of horizontal shapers? Why get angry over this? People use the tools they have as a first choice. I have a shaper - I make gears and racks with it. I don't have a vertical gear shaper and don't make enough gears to justify the floor space for one. If I already had a vertical gear shaper that is probably what I'd use. Life decisions are like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rosco-P
    replied
    Originally posted by dp View Post
    No - but the fact that they are tells me the home shop machinist has spoken - not enough need for such a specialty machine to justify finding one, making room for it, and explaining to the wife how to dispose of it when the time comes . In a classroom, on the other hand, it would be very cool.

    Just relocated the PDF file that describes the jig used in the video: http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Mic...gear%20cut.pdf - it was found down in the comments.
    Oh please...! Using "home shop" as justification for buying stuff that often serves no purpose other than to build toys. How about owning a machine that earns its keep. Look at what change gears sell for, set or singles. How about being able to reproduce those lost or otherwise unobtainable metric transposition gears? You could own a ready to rock machine for less than the cost of a poor adaption to a horizontal shaper.

    Fellows Company, Art of generating gears, part 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYh8j...os=3Ad2G36AEpM

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  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by Rosco-P View Post
    Doesn't have to be, does it?
    No - but the fact that they are tells me the home shop machinist has spoken - not enough need for such a specialty machine to justify finding one, making room for it, and explaining to the wife how to dispose of it when the time comes . In a classroom, on the other hand, it would be very cool.

    Just relocated the PDF file that describes the jig used in the video: http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Mic...gear%20cut.pdf - it was found down in the comments.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rosco-P
    replied
    Doesn't have to be, does it? How many home shop have a 7 to 9" SB, Atlas, Ammco or other small shaper that does little more than take up bench space? But everybody needs a shaper, right? How you going to cut those internal keyways?
    I cut them with a broach and a press. After Tuckahoe acquired their antique model for a "song", two more became available in Pa. for little more than 10 cents per pound, newer models, working condition.

    There is money to be made in cutting spur gears that are no longer available (think: lathe change gears) as John S. can attest.

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  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by Rosco-P View Post
    Basically, you're trying to make your horizontal shaper do what a vertical gear shaper was designed to do. Direct from your "favorite" other BBS:
    Given that vertical gear shapers in home shops are rare as moon rocks that should come as no surprise. It would be a hoot to have access to one, though. The solutions to common problems created in those days are still fascinating.

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  • dp
    replied
    Originally posted by randm View Post
    It wasn't brass, it was steel
    Must be Lucas lighting

    Every time I look at that vid it seems I notice something missed before. I like your tool holder - brilliant. Off to the shop to reproduce!

    Leave a comment:

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