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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
    Angles mean little in specs for tapers, for two reasons.
    Remember these are mostly age old specifications and they didn't have CMM machines 100 years ago
    Most angle measuring instruments or tools are too broad or are NOT sensitive enough to measure precise matching tapers.
    Its like using a ruler to measure .001" dimensions...........
    I think this is more true when measuring morse, jarno or B&S sorts of tapers.... small taper angles.

    Many collets have a much steeper taper, such as the 12 deg for a 3C, or 10 deg for a 5C. Those are not the same sort of problem to measure as the shallow tapers. And the consequences of being wrong by a hair are less drastic.

    Besides.... these collets are SPECIFIED by an angle.... and the information as to the angle in degrees is a heck of a lot better than a raw guess, or no information at all as to the intent.

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  • TGTool
    replied
    You might be looking at DA or double angle collets. I'm not familiar with a DT spec, but I've seen one of those collets before and it's noticeably different than a DA.



    Originally posted by vpt View Post
    Thats what I was told many times while searching for the right collets for my closer. But if you look at my collet the taper is the same on both sides, the collet can be flipped around and used either way.

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  • vpt
    replied
    Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
    Andy, looks like a DT, or double taper collet.
    See this
    http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/DT_Collet.html
    Rich

    Thats what I was told many times while searching for the right collets for my closer. But if you look at my collet the taper is the same on both sides, the collet can be flipped around and used either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rich Carlstedt
    replied
    Andy, looks like a DT, or double taper collet.
    See this
    http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/DT_Collet.html

    Angles mean little in specs for tapers, for two reasons.
    Remember these are mostly age old specifications and they didn't have CMM machines 100 years ago
    Most angle measuring instruments or tools are too broad or are NOT sensitive enough to measure precise matching tapers.
    Its like using a ruler to measure .001" dimensions
    For example: Tapered bores are easily measured with standard instruments for the past 150 years, and using several different methods can confirm the actual taper.

    Physical tapers are measured to the fourth decimal place.
    The tangent of 1 degree is .017" per inch , so you would need to read to 1/170 th of a degree to match that level of precision.
    If you had a Angle vernier dial, you could only do 1/17th of a degree, or 10 times less accurate.
    To get an idea on this, note that some tapers are expressed in inches per foot, like .125" per foot- far superior to angular dimensions.
    Also realize that today, we talk about decimal degrees....not used until recently with the digital revolution.
    In the old days, it was degrees, hours, and minutes........ Can you imagine reading the taper at 3 degrees,27 min,21 seconds- Much easier to say .0604" per inch

    Rich

    Leave a comment:


  • vpt
    replied
    I have never found out what these collets are that came with my lever closer.

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by DR View Post


    Why is the angle important?

    When we were re-grinding the spindle taper for our Hardinge 5C machine the factory advised to grind it less than the collet's 10 degrees. More like a 9.75 degree angle so the collet contacted the taper on the big end of the spindle taper.
    For that reason, perhaps........

    Leave a comment:


  • DR
    replied
    Hardinge had (still has?) a master collet listing book. Used to be free, I'm not sure if it's even available now, for sure not free anymore unless it's online. Around a hundred common collets listed in my latest version. No angles specified, only diameters, lengths, threads and so on.


    Why is the angle important?

    When we were re-grinding the spindle taper for our Hardinge 5C machine the factory advised to grind it less than the collet's 10 degrees. More like a 9.75 degree angle so the collet contacted the taper on the big end of the spindle taper.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    The Zagar ref includes angles..... but covers 3C 5C and other "C" series collets only.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeLee
    replied
    Still no angle listed. Must be it's not too important. I think it's about 10 deg. isn't it ????

    JL.......................

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Another reference including 3C and 5C

    http://www.zagar.com/v/vspfiles/temp...-ID-OD-Pg2.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • Galane
    replied
    Here's yet another type/size of collet.

    Dimensions Length 2.229" Small diameter 0.758" Large diameter 0.992" Mid diameter 0.723" At the large end there's a straight area about 0.176" long Taper length is about 0.469" They have a 0.125" wide keyway in the small end, 0.033" deep. No threads, inside or out.

    I have four in various sizes. No markings at all! I do have a collet chuck and adapter sleeve, came with a Montgomery Ward (Logan) 10" lathe. The chuck screws onto the spindle, collet goes into an MT3 adapter sleeve, into the chuck, then a holding ring screws on. If the sleeve gets stuck in the spindle, unscrewing the chuck pops it out.

    Edit: Picture! http://www.flickr.com/photos/2774876...57639469853874
    Last edited by Galane; 01-07-2014, 01:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Alciatore
    replied
    You just need to do a bit of web searching. I found this one after a couple of minutes: it was about the fifth site that I visited.

    http://www.riten.com/pdf/collet-chuck-catalog-2007.pdf

    They have drawings on a bunch of collets with dimensions and angles.But not all collets are there.

    Perhaps you could make up such a chart and post it for the benefit of all here.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeEM
    replied
    I thought HSM or Machinist's Workshop did an article on this years ago. They listed all the antique sizes and it covered a lot more than one page.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rosco-P
    replied
    Originally posted by Toolguy View Post
    Several common ones are not on that chart. For example - R8, ER, AF, etc.
    That chart is intended to help find what collet fits what machine. In most cases it's referring to antique machinery. This is a companion chart: http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/colletap.html

    A guy who doesn't know that a B'port J head uses R8 is hopelessly lost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arthur.Marks
    replied
    Not complete, but angles are listed for a good many: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs.html
    A good reference for its comprehensiveness; however, it also does not list angles: Spindle Tooling Brochure 2348G Go all the way to the end of the PDF for cross reference and comparison.
    Last edited by Arthur.Marks; 09-26-2013, 10:39 AM.

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