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Need some help/instructions...MT5 taper to MT4

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  • Need some help/instructions...MT5 taper to MT4

    Well, I picked up a set of adapters for a great price. Only issue is that they are MT5, and my tail stock is MT4. I almost certain they are not hardened.

    Assets: Very good lathe, decent tooling tooling etc.
    Potential liability: I do not have the ability to turn off a dead center and I do not have a taper attachment.

    I can put something the adapter, such as a tapered drill bit and turn off that..

    Am I better off taking these to a capable machine shop with a CNC lathe and let them do it?

  • #2
    And, I have 5.125" travel on my my compound travel, which appears to be enough for MT4

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    • #3
      Unless you cannot loose the bed length, why no just buy an adapter? I have a #3 to a #2 so I can use most things in my tailstock. This way I avoid a set of MT2 collets.
      Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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      • #4
        I must confess, I am slightly confused by your answer, which must mean I didnt explain my situation well.

        I have picked up a set of MT adapters..such as MT1 to an MT5, MT2 to MT5..etc...except my lathe tail stock is MT4..not MT5...

        So I want to cut the outside of the adapter to fit my tailstock..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by cuemaker View Post
          And, I have 5.125" travel on my my compound travel, which appears to be enough for MT4
          So if they are soft, just cut a new taper with the compound or am I missing something ?
          .

          Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Stevenson View Post
            So if they are soft, just cut a new taper with the compound or am I missing something ?
            Yes, you are missing that I am not a machinist..I do not pretend to be one, and I suck at math. I am good at following instructions, but understanding usually has to come from doing it...

            Is there a simple formula to set the compound to? I am kinda in the process of taking a known MT4, putting it in and using a DTI to set the angle, but I was looking for a maybe a simpler answer...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by cuemaker View Post
              Yes, you are missing that I am not a machinist..I do not pretend to be one, and I suck at math. I am good at following instructions, but understanding usually has to come from doing it...

              Is there a simple formula to set the compound to? I am kinda in the process of taking a known MT4, putting it in and using a DTI to set the angle, but I was looking for a maybe a simpler answer...
              That's your best answer. Even if you calculated the angle you can't set it accurately enough without some dialing in, or a series of cut-and-try, cut-and-try which gets tedious quickly because you have no way of know how much to adjust except to try again. I cut cavities for ER collets pretty frequently and those are 8 degrees per side. It doesn't help much to use the angle setting except to get into the ballpark. Even getting a couple tenths off too large or small an angle will quickly show up in a wobbly part. So the best and only solution is to get out the indicator and keep adjusting until it runs straight down the 8 degrees. I use a sine bar but it could be an angle block or even an ER collet mounted on a mandrel.

              You're doing it right.
              .
              "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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              • #8
                You might be better off if you trade or sell them. You can buy a 1-4 Morse taper sleeve from Enco for $8.14 an 2-4 for $9.04 and a 3-4 for $9.04 set of 3 for$26,22 . Part # for first idem 214-8014
                jimsehr

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                • #9
                  You are right Cuemaker, cutting morse tapers can be a pain in the ass.
                  Best way I do it, is I have a small 2.5" Kingman-White sine bar.
                  It is magnetic, and I set it with Jo blocks or a height gauge, then
                  stick it to the compound slide or taper attachment. I then dial
                  it in with the test indicator until it reads zero. Get the numbers from
                  Machinery Handbook. It has sine tables also. Without a step by step
                  detail, does this make sense??

                  -Doozer
                  DZER

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                  • #10
                    Or just sell those for what you can get at look at this guy's stuff over on PM.

                    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...leeves-276449/
                    .
                    "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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                    • #11
                      Be aware that in setting the compound angle, against a known taper, with the DTI, AND in doing the actual cutting it is VERY important that the indicator tip and the cutting tool be EXACTLY at the center line height; otherwise the angle will be off by some small amount.

                      If both were off the center line by exactly the same amount it could work out OK. But it's easier to implement by striving for the exact center line height.
                      Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lynnl View Post
                        Be aware that in setting the compound angle, against a known taper, with the DTI, AND in doing the actual cutting it is VERY important that the indicator tip and the cutting tool be EXACTLY at the center line height; otherwise the angle will be off by some small amount.

                        If both were off the center line by exactly the same amount it could work out OK. But it's easier to implement by striving for the exact center line height.
                        Interesting information. This is the kind of thing that I can't "see" in my head and even after the information, still couldnt tell you why it is.

                        Will let you know results on a test bar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          To help visualize the error that would result in not being on center height, imagine that you're working with a reall-l-l-y long taper that has a tiny small end (say, a 1/4", i.e. 1/8"radius) and a huge large end (approaching infinity).
                          Now imagine setting your tool bit (or indicator tip) at the small end ....twice: once exactly on center, and then 1/32" below center. Owing to that small radius of curvature you would have to crank in the cross slide several thousandths more when below center than when on center.

                          Now employing the same mental exercise at the big end, we can see that due to the larger radius of curvature there would be less difference in the cross feed positions.
                          Last edited by lynnl; 12-08-2013, 11:41 AM.
                          Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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                          • #14
                            Do yourself a favor and buy some new ones.

                            Using homemade tapers in a machine's tailstock is a bad idea. If they aren't perfect there's a good chance they'll slip (spin) in the tailstock's socket and score it.

                            Even the cheapest import junk from China will be better than most pros can do on the lathe. It's false economy to make your own.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cuemaker View Post
                              Interesting information. This is the kind of thing that I can't "see" in my head and even after the information, still couldnt tell you why it is.
                              Say you have the taper between centers and is running perfectly true. You place the indicator on center and then follow the taper. If you did the math (fortunately we don't really need to) your taper would be perfect per spec. Thats true because we're following the leading edge of the taper the full length. The problem arises if you are above or below center line. Since a taper is a cone as you follow the taper the diameter is changing too which will skew your results.

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