Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help with milling surface *rough pattern*

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help with milling surface *rough pattern*

    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post, I am a journeyman mold maker machinist, and I started a side business about 6 months ago. I mill the club faces of wedges and short irons for added backspin and performance. My website is groovybirdgolf.com , check it out!
    I have been running an old Bridgeport mill at work, and now I run my business 100% from home. I bought a HiTorque 3960 Mini Mill from Little Machine Shop.
    HiTorque 3960 Mini Mill
    • belt driven
    • solid column
    • 2500 max rpm
    • flycutter, carbide tool
    • 20" x 5" table


    My desired surface is unlike almost all milling machinists. This is why it is hard for me to find helpful solutions. My goal is to achieve a surface that is rough, with circular mill patterns, about .001" - .002" crest to trough pattern line. It does not need to be exact.
    Am I using the wrong tool, should I be using a facemill cutter? Should I use as much radius as possible without rubbing?

    Thank you in advance, any advice would be helpful!

  • #2
    Well I seem to have some what of a pattern that you describe when the mill is out of tram. Increasing the feed rate will produce similar patterns.
    Byron Boucher
    Burnet, TX

    Comment


    • #3
      What a groovy name. Welcome to the forum.
      Don't no if this will help, me being an amateur and all but recently I was milling a piece of good quality Unknowium and when I use small endmills 5/16, 1/2 inch the finish was perfect but on the same piece of metal when I used a 1" endmill with light cuts to surface the faces, the leading edge came out great while the trailing edge had circular rings all across it. Not just the usual pattern but rings dug into the face. The mill is trammed square. Possibly experimenting with feed rates and depth of cut (possible one dull tooth would do it) would give you the required results.
      The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

      Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

      Comment


      • #4
        Funny thats usually just the opposite of what people are trying to do.

        I'd try smaller radius tip (keep the fly cutter) and just increase your feedrate per Boucher.
        Reduce RPMs to get within the feedrate / pattern you're looking for.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Boucher View Post
          Well I seem to have some what of a pattern that you describe when the mill is out of tram. Increasing the feed rate will produce similar patterns.
          Thanks! I will try and speed up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by loose nut View Post
            What a groovy name. Welcome to the forum.
            Don't no if this will help, me being an amateur and all but recently I was milling a piece of good quality Unknowium and when I use small endmills 5/16, 1/2 inch the finish was perfect but on the same piece of metal when I used a 1" endmill with light cuts to surface the faces, the leading edge came out great while the trailing edge had circular rings all across it. Not just the usual pattern but rings dug into the face. The mill is trammed square. Possibly experimenting with feed rates and depth of cut (possible one dull tooth would do it) would give you the required results.
            Thanks! I will try experimenting with the feed rate, and maybe different cutting angles. My mill is trammed square but still cuts another .0005" or so on the trailing edge, close enough! By the way I am using a fly cutter, adjusted to about 2" diameter.

            Comment


            • #7
              If the mill is trammed and the gibs are properly adjusted, the machine may just not be stiff enough for a cutter that large, But your description of the surface sounds like it could be out of tram.

              Comment


              • #8
                Seems to me that just roughing it up would be tempermental in result. IOW, no consistency to the intended "added backspin and performance." Yes, it may needn't be "exact;" however, I think you would want to have some method more reliable than an out of tram, chipped tooth, milling cutter. Right

                I'm more inclined to approach this wih a properly adjusted and trammed machine. Use a fly cutter with an intentionally shaped cutting edge. Won't the shape of the groove affect "backspin and performance" too? Then do the calculations to work out groove spacing. All "feed rate" is is how far the table moves for each full revolution of the cutter. If you don't want a cross-hatch pattern, you still may need to adjust tram. I would rather, though, do it in a measurable manner. For example, head tilt is set to "V" degrees with "W" cutter diameter using "X" shaped toolbit at "Y" feedrate to produce repeatable, accurate pattern "Z." ...reads more complicated than it is.

                Last question... What are these golf clubs made of? You're not compromising an outer surface layer (i.e. hard chrome), are you? Maybe they are stainless steel? (...not a golfer here )

                [Added:] don't think of your cutter as a "milling" tool for what you're aiming, but as a "grooving" tool. You will find more relevant information that way. In addition, using a toolbit in a flycutter is a single point cutting operation. That shares more with a lathe tool than the vast majority of milling operations. A final point of informational reference for you to investigate might be shaper/planer tools.
                Last edited by Arthur.Marks; 12-30-2013, 02:07 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think Arthur is on the right track here.

                  I'm seeing a fly cutter with a single point threading toolbit, fed pretty fast. Maybe 10 fpm?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    His problem may not be due to the tram of the head but to the fixturing of the part, club faces. Golf club heads are an od shape, how do you mount one in a vise???? You can't drop it on parallels. How are you setting these up on your mill???
                    Also they heads are cast aren't they???? that would account for a different finish.

                    JL.................

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by groovybird View Post
                      Hello everyone, This is my first post, I am a journeyman mold maker machinist, !
                      I think that everyone has given you the advice you need, but I would have to question why a journeyman mold maker machinist would need to seek it, unless you are confusing the term perhaps.?
                      By the time one can be called a journeyman there are usually more than enough years under the belt to provide the answers.
                      Good luck with your business btw, looks like an interesting sideline.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I get that pattern you want all the time .. grin.

                        Just use a flycutter with a cutter that has a sharp point on it. And to make it better
                        use a fly cutter that is so big that only the first half of the swing is used .. so that the
                        back side of the swing doesn't clean up the cut.

                        Also as the guys have said .. the brisker the feed rate .. the further the distance between
                        grooves.

                        Between the radius of the cutter and the feed rate .. you should be able to get the exact
                        pattern you want.

                        You can even get fancy and come at the part from multiple different directions and come up with
                        truly custom patterns.

                        Mike A
                        Last edited by Mike Amick; 12-30-2013, 04:24 PM.
                        John Titor, when are you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is a picture of the mill. Yes you are right, golf clubs are oddly shaped. As you can see I used a hydraulic bottle jack as a lift. I welded a platform for the club to rest on, and shim the back half of the cavity back.


                          Here is the cutter I am using. After I posted this thread, I tried adding more relief to the carbide cutter on top and back edge. This definitely helped.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikeamick View Post
                            I get that pattern you want all the time .. grin.

                            Just use a flycutter with a cutter that has a sharp point on it. And to make it better
                            use a fly cutter that is so big that only the first half of the swing is used .. so that the
                            back side of the swing doesn't clean up the cut.

                            Also as the guys have said .. the brisker the feed rate .. the further the distance between
                            grooves.

                            Between the radius of the cutter and the feed rate .. you should be able to get the exact
                            pattern you want.

                            You can even get fancy and come at the part from multiple different directions and come up with
                            truly custom patterns.

                            Mike A
                            Thanks Mike! I had better luck today with the trail edge. Everything cut true today.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arthur.Marks View Post
                              Seems to me that just roughing it up would be tempermental in result. IOW, no consistency to the intended "added backspin and performance." Yes, it may needn't be "exact;" however, I think you would want to have some method more reliable than an out of tram, chipped tooth, milling cutter. Right

                              I'm more inclined to approach this wih a properly adjusted and trammed machine. Use a fly cutter with an intentionally shaped cutting edge. Won't the shape of the groove affect "backspin and performance" too? Then do the calculations to work out groove spacing. All "feed rate" is is how far the table moves for each full revolution of the cutter. If you don't want a cross-hatch pattern, you still may need to adjust tram. I would rather, though, do it in a measurable manner. For example, head tilt is set to "V" degrees with "W" cutter diameter using "X" shaped toolbit at "Y" feedrate to produce repeatable, accurate pattern "Z." ...reads more complicated than it is.

                              Last question... What are these golf clubs made of? You're not compromising an outer surface layer (i.e. hard chrome), are you? Maybe they are stainless steel? (...not a golfer here )

                              [Added:] don't think of your cutter as a "milling" tool for what you're aiming, but as a "grooving" tool. You will find more relevant information that way. In addition, using a toolbit in a flycutter is a single point cutting operation. That shares more with a lathe tool than the vast majority of milling operations. A final point of informational reference for you to investigate might be shaper/planer tools.
                              Arthur thanks for the constructive criticism. You mentioned your not a golfer, and you seem weary of this idea, but milled faces have become popular in the last 4 or 5 years. Titleist leads the pack with what they call a "spin-milled" vokey wedge. And you are right, most of the clubs are made of stainless steel. Some are chrome dipped, there is usually a thick enough coat to remain even. The circular pattern I am creating is inspired by Titleist, and is very similar. Of course I do not want it too rough, this could render the club illegal according the PGA tour rules of golf.
                              I will look into finding a better tool, as you mentioned look for "grooving tools".
                              I recently trammed the table with a dial indicator and it is very true.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X