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Ressurected Indy Motor

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  • Ressurected Indy Motor

    In the late '30s an individual from Chicago named Joseph Lencki had Leo Gossen design and Offenhauer build a DOHC inlinesix fo use at Indy. In a lot of ways it can be thought of as a six cylinder Offy. Monoblock, hemispherical combution chamber. It was later built as a four valve pentroof combustion chamber engine. It producd goodpower for its time, around 420 bhp. But it never did well. A string of DNFs mainly due to crashes and other components failing* it hung around till the early '60s. As I understand it about 4 or 5 years ago someone was lookingfor a motor for a classic wood boat and they went looking for one of them. They ended up buying the drawing, pattern and rights and they are now available. Now, they ain't cheap. Let's just say 6 figures. They are looking at the race car restoration market and high end street rods. It may well be afools errand on their part but I'll give theses guys credit for at least getting it built and running
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...2m0qKoHi3UToEw

    http://image.streetrodderweb.com/f/e...k_2_Engine.jpg


    I think of it as one of Harry Miller's stepchildern

    *the storied Novi never really amounted to much either
    Last edited by Spin Doctor; 04-23-2014, 05:54 PM.
    Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

  • #2
    Interesting post!!
    Just goes again to show you that money can get many things done.

    Comment


    • #3
      The problem with both the Lenki and the Novi was not bad designs but simple cost. It just was so much less expensive to by and Offy and build what amounted to a kit Indy racer. The suspensions and tires of the era did not like the extra power.

      Comment


      • #4
        Engine has a straight cut gear whine to it, I don't think they used timing belts back then did they? square tooth belts that are too tight will kinda make that sound too,

        Im thinking the way they drove the cam or cams has something to do with it... almost sounds super charged with a blower that has straight cut link gears...

        reminds me allot of the V/6 Fiat Dino, straight cut gear from crank to intermediate, then intermediate had a cog for chain that ran the cams, very distinctive sound...

        put your basic manual trans car or truck in reverse and gun it, that's the stuff...

        Comment


        • #5
          Kinda interesting, the evolution of Henry's flat, leather belt on his T. Then came the Vbelt, but it would not last when coiling the wrong way, so on to the multigroove, flat belts of today. Best of both.

          Multiple straight cut gears were used for driving/timing the Miller-Offenhausers' double camshafts. First time I heard the description of a 'gear tower'. Brings up the subject of engine noise---required? Heck yes, why would the Porsche people ever want to get rid of their chain drive noise?

          --G

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          • #6
            I wonder what the bore center distance is. The Lencki startd out at 3.750 and went to 3.8125. A head like this would look neat on a Chevy 230 or an AMC 199, 232, 258 or 4.0. The Chevy BC is 4.40 and the AMC is 4.380. Slant Sixes I don't know about the bigger ones.
            Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

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            • #7
              Would love to see some build pics and inside guts. I wonder whose doing the castings?

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd be curious to hear more about their re-engineering of the engine beyond the lowered compression, EFI, and ignition control, as well as their realistic sales. I'm sure theyve gone to a milder cam grind, but am curious if the basic architecture is still the same. If it really still does have a press fit crank, monoblock, in addition to the high price tag, I dont see this as selling even for a high end hot rod. Offys were a royal PITA to keep running, the Lenckis are likely worse, so even as cool as the thought of one in a hot rod is I dont see it as realistic unless you enjoy working on your car more than driving it.

                Dont get me wrong, this is definitely a cool project and much as I detest Corky Coker kudos for a cool project. It even sounds somewhat like an Offy, makes me really curious to hear it at high howl!
                "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

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                • #9
                  Offys were a royal PITA to keep running,

                  Why was that?

                  I agree about the cost. If you're going to build a HR go with a V8.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Regardless of the cost, they will sell some of these motors to the hot rod crowd. I am sure Leno will have a car with one in it. It looks like a long motor though, I wonder how it will fit into an early Ford.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                      Engine has a straight cut gear whine to it, I don't think they used timing belts back then did they? square tooth belts that are too tight will kinda make that sound too,

                      Im thinking the way they drove the cam or cams has something to do with it... almost sounds super charged with a blower that has straight cut link gears...

                      reminds me allot of the V/6 Fiat Dino, straight cut gear from crank to intermediate, then intermediate had a cog for chain that ran the cams, very distinctive sound...

                      put your basic manual trans car or truck in reverse and gun it, that's the stuff...
                      Last time I looked, Formula 1 engines still used gear drives as did the Cosworth DFV and DFX. I can't imagine a chain, much less a belt, lasting very long going from idle to >12000 rpm 30 times a lap.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I suspect the bottom end is conventional with bearing caps and babbit bearing inserts. Maybe four or six bolt mains. They may of kept the monobloc construction but I really don't see it as nessecary today. Plus remember the Offy's monobloc bolted to the crankcase as does the original Lencki. After all Leo Gossen worked at Offenhausr. They'll sell a few of these. As stated Leno will probably want one and one may show up in a Riddler Trophy enterant. Myself a Jag six would look just as cool.
                        Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CarlByrns View Post
                          Last time I looked, Formula 1 engines still used gear drives as did the Cosworth DFV and DFX. I can't imagine a chain, much less a belt, lasting very long going from idle to >12000 rpm 30 times a lap.
                          Chains would have no problem and I don't think either would a properly designed belt, many of the stock but high performance little in-line 4 cylinder motorcycles use a chain at close to 16,000 rpms and their are belt designs beyond the RPM's your talking,,, some with change intervals well beyond 50,000 miles, actually what gets a belt is idle and multiple cams, it means very few lobes per cam and lot's of camshaft "josseling", cams have momentum and at idle all the positive/negative pulses fret away at the TB's teeth,,, this effect gets eliminated at higher RPM's

                          Idle and heat are a timing belts worst enemy, many a car owners manual states to change the belt early if the car has been used in "taxi-cab style driving"


                          gear to gear is the most efficient esp. at extremely high RPM's,,, chains start to consume some power esp. at the cranks smaller cog end where it has to change direction in a short distance,,, belts are lighter and do very well, but gear to gear is superior that way...
                          Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 04-26-2014, 04:33 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Spin Doctor View Post
                            Myself a Jag six would look just as cool.
                            This has always been one of the most elegantly styled engines put into a standard production automobile.
                            As the saying goes, form follows function.



                            Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                            Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

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                            • #15
                              To each their own Willy - I worked on plenty of those beasts - I don't quite remember all the quirks but they were one of the largest/heaviest engines for their displacement and HP rating, they were downright cumbersome...

                              Actually lots of engines of that era were, but Jaguar took it to the extreme...

                              I won't throw mud on the DOHC inline six design though, one of the most perfectly balanced engines both mechanically and powerstroke wise... for that you have to give them credit for choosing a very good initial design...

                              One of the most common conversions back in the day was to yank them out and drop a V8 350 chebby engine in them.

                              not condoning that behavior either

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