QC tool golder for Griz Lathe.

[pturner]

I going to purchase a Griz lathe this week, either the 4003, 4003G or 0750G. Still vacillating on if I want to deal with the change gears or not. I'll look at them side byside at the showroom and then plop my money down.

My question relates to the QC toolpost. I have acouple of questions: Is it compatable with Aloris/PhaseII, etc. Is it any good, or should I plan on replacing it? Also wondering how I determine the series so I can buy more toolholders. Final question is if the griz tool holders are any good?

Generally I've been happy with Jet/Griz tools, but use nothing but american cutting tools (end mills, drills, annular cutters (japanese), bandsaw blades, etc.) My lathe experience is minimal, so I don't know how tool holders fit in the quality spectrium.

Thanks for your help.

Pat

[sch]

This is a B or 200 series tool holder, good upto 5/8" shank tool size. There is a very high probability that it will be compatible with Phase11 or for that matter the relatively inexpensive
CDCO tool holders. It is unclear whether this is a wedge type (slightly preferred for "greater repeatibility of placement" ) or not. It will likely be a few thousands shy of Aloris repeatibility
but similar to Phase11, if that matters in your work or not. The quality is going to be similar to the rest of the lathe and it is nice to see Griz putting these on as OEM tool holders

[Wayne Sippola]

You don't want to deal with change gears if you don't have to. Especially if it's your only lathe. Skip the quick change tool post and use the 4 way if that's what it comes with - you can always upgrade a toolpost later. If you decide you want a threading gear box, you pretty much need to replace the lathe.

With the threading gearbox, the lathe will always maintain a higher resale value as well - just in case you ever do sell it.

[danlb]

The 4003 has a picture of the quick change tool post, and it is a piston style. It works well enough, but the wedge style is slightly better. I would not bother upgrading the tool post.

All three models have quick change gear boxes on them. All three will cut a range of threads by moving a few levers (or dials). The 4003 series will do 40 threads without having to substitute any gears. Metric threading involves installing the correct (included) change gears. The 0750 will only do a handful Looks like 3 to 6 threads) without swapping gears.

I LIKE a complete gearbox. Swapping change gears leads to accepting whatever thread it's set up for sometimes.

I'd go for the 4003 series machines.

Dan

[pturner]

Thanks guys- Bought the 4003G today. for an extra $50 over the 4003 you get the spider, a worklight, and ball bearing rests (3 of the 5 bearings would free spin :-()

As someone who worked in a foundry in college I was dispointed in the cleaning of the castings on the display model- there was lots of burned on sand that looks like it could easially be removed with a 18" cold chisel. There were no obvious other problems and no inclusions in the machined surfaces. The demo unit was pretty smooth except for the compound feed, which was both sticky and hard to turn. This was common to all three lathes I was lookign= the 0705 added .100 backlash in the compound. I'm no lathe mechanic, bit I would imagine the compound is the easiest part to fix.

I see what ya'll mean about the toolholders, while not quite an Aloris, they are very functional, and all I need. I note griz's prices are more then half the price of an aloris- so they aren't forced to cut every corner. It's really a nice standard feature. We bought a clausing at work and it did not come with a QC toolpost.

Unlike my last Griz purchase, this unit is in stock in MO.

Another thing I'll say about Griz- their cashiers really know their job- shipping, delivery, etc. Also knew to ask me about lube. It reminds me of going to chick-fil-a.

Now if just griz would come out with a 20" sander...

[sch]

Now you might want to look at www.cdcotools.com for some extra BXA size tool holders. They are currently $10-11 each and prior posters (and myself) have found them to be
reliable fast shippers with quite satisactory products. OTOH the "indexable turning tool set" is +/-, mainly due to the very generic carbide tips used (NOT unique to CDCO, such
sets are all over the tool suppliers catalogs and this comment applies to all such).

[PStechPaul]

I was not familiar with the G4003G but I have a HF 9x20 that is virtually the same as the G4000, and it has a much better user manual. You might want to check the Steve Bedair site for his review and some issues he corrected:

http://bedair.org/Grizzly12x/GrizzlyG4003G.html

I used the picture from his site. It looks like a very capable machine:


It costs about four times what mine did:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g4003g

Their G0750G costs a couple hundred more, and seems to have more controls. They are both described as gunsmithing lathes, perhaps the reason for the appended "G", but I don't know what that means:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Gunsmithing-Lathe/G0750G

Good luck with your lathe. I have heard mostly good things about Grizzly products, and I would probably consider them if I wanted a larger and more capable machine. But actually I would probably wait until I saw some "old US iron", sometimes offered on Craig's list, and I would consider any rebuilding or modification needed as a challenge. But I'm also glad I got my HF machine when I did, and I think it was only about $800 ten years ago. The equivalent Grizzly is now $1200.

[pturner]

Now you might want to look at www.cdcotools.com for some extra BXA size tool holders. They are currently $10-11 each and prior posters (and myself) have found them to be
reliable fast shippers with quite satisactory products. OTOH the "indexable turning tool set" is +/-, mainly due to the very generic carbide tips used (NOT unique to CDCO, such
sets are all over the tool suppliers catalogs and this comment applies to all such).

By "generic carbide tips" does this imply with a name brand insert, they are OK? I'm looking for a set (or at least pair) of insert toolholders, and was looking at a McMaster set, 3240A127, for about $110. These seem cheaper then I would expect to pay, but I need to buy somethign to start with.

Learning lathe inserts is a science, I am guessing.

[Arthur.Marks]

The McMaster part number is a Borite set. Not at all the same category of tool. Their carbide is fine. http://www.boritemanufacturing.com/indexable_lathes

[Seastar]

Buy some HSS tool blanks and grind your own lathe tools.
It's easy, informative and satisfying.
Bill

[Boucher]

The cheap tool holders come with poor quality inserts. When outfitted with good quality inserts like these from the Carbide Depot they work great.

The ceramic will cut hard materials and produce allmost polished finishes if you turh it fast enough to get from straw to blue black chips.
Finding the right inserts by trial and error can be expensive. Upon opening the insert drawer one day it dawned on me that the contents of that drawer cost more than my lathe. HSS will do 90% of the things a HSM needs to do.

[Hopefuldave]

I'll second HSS tools, and sstrongly argue against the cheap brazed carbide tooling everybody sells as a "starter set", the carbide is poor quality, the angles are wrong and the edges are blunt - they're ok for hacking the scale off castings but not much else without regrinding and honing with a diamond hone. In their favour, the wholesale price to the importer makes them profitable...
HSS does most of what you need in a home workshop and.teaches you a lot about angles and relief, tip radius etc and they can be touched up quickly on the grinder, ideal!
Insert carbide tooling is useful for very hard materials but it's worth buying quality inserts (I like.Sandvik) and.really requires.a.powerful,.rigid lathe like.those in industry that insert tooling is.intended for.
Just my ha'pennorth.

[tmarks11]

Thanks guys- Bought the 4003G today.

Good choice. The G4003G is an easy choice over the G4003. Once you throw in the cost of the stand, the price difference is negligible.

The G750G seems a tougher choice on initial look. However, this is a new offering, and initial buyers didn't seem real happy with what they got. It looks prettier, but I am not sure you are getting $200 more functionality out of it. I think you made the right choice.

Now if you wanted to step up to the $8000 G0509....

Tooling. HSS blanks at $6 each will last for months, but you have to learn to grind your own. Watch these videos (he was one of my instructors):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCpIxq0kHzo

If you don't want to go there, you can buy indexable HSS tooling:

http://www.arwarnerco.com/

Stepping up to carbide, Carbide-Depot is a good place to go. And ebay is a good place also. But you need to spend some significant time researching your purchases, because it is expensive, and easy to get the wrong tool. If you don't understand carbide grades, chipbreaker types, etc, then do some reading. Using the wrong grade is an expensive mistake. Manufacturer catalogs are a good place to go. Also, carbide depot has some good reference pages:

http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm

[pturner]

Thanks everyone. I bought the set from McMaster, and some spare toolholders from CDCO. plus a gallon of spindle oil. Now I found out the lathe was pretty much destroyed in shipment. I don't know if Griz has another one to ship soon. Whats bad is I've got to go use the 4003 at work to center drill some pins for a project in Alaska. Maybe I'll take my new toolholders with me to cut some chamfers.

I do have a half dozen sticks of M2 sittign arround, and I will try makeing my own tool bits. I wish I had the lathe back when I had access to a real machinist to check my work. But I want to have the carbide also.

All the carbide info was helpful, and I had decided on some diamond insert tooling, but ordered the McMaster set because it would be here before the lathe. It also has the advantage of being able to get the inserts from MMC- they don't stock 3/8" IC diamonds= and they have same day inexpensive shipping to my office ($3-4 for a small package)

[RobbieKnobbie]

I have had the 4003 for 6 or 7 years now, and its been a very capable, dependable machine. The piston-type toolpost is very functional and I agree that there's little point in upgrading it.

After a few hours of run time I drained and replaced the spindle oil with Total GP68 (though any quality spindle oil will do) and the machine was suddenly much quieter than new. Aside from that, keep the ways clean, and give it a squirt of oil in each of the lube points every once in a while and it'll be a good machine for a long time.

One thing to check: the tailstock center that was out of adjustment on mine .030. Its a simple fix, and by no means a big deal, but something to check.

Congratulations on the purchase, I hope the new one shows up in better shape than the first. (but I have to ask, if you were at the showroom, why didn't you bring it home yourself?)