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  • Safety Signs

    I recently queried a sign at a worksite , which displayed 5klm/hr speed limit as most places are 10 klm/hr.
    The "safety officer" nearly had a fit because I questioned that.

    My workplace has a large sign which clearly states speed is determined by conditions( dry /wet etc), and pedestrians MUST give way to any mobile plant at all times ( its a condition of entry).

    The safety officer couldnt get it into his thick head that our site has had no "accidents" in over twenty years and we strictly enforce the pedestrial rule to the point of escorting people out the gate .

    Safety on a lot of sites has gotten out of hand , a lot of time is wasted sitting around talking about what should be normal practice when working , and even more time holding refresher courses in basic stuff.

    Why cant there be a return to just learn how to work and operate equipment safely during your early training (apprenticeship etc), and dispense with the time wasting crap.

    I only wear high visibility clothes when working at other sites , here it dark green or blue work clothes which dont look dirty after five minutes.

    Any thoughts ?
    Michael

  • #2
    The safety department decided that high vis waistcoats were to be worn over out blue melton MM2 suits in the steel plant, what a good idea, they ordered hundreds of them, i was given one and told it was mandatory to wear it on plant, ok no problem, first job, inspect the slabs off the caster 1875mm wide 234 mm thick piled 8 high in piles about 3 m apart, need to check them for lamination and cracks scoring and the like, put on my jacket and helmet, visor with kepi, gauntlets etc pull on the high vis and walk up to the first pile of slabs with a hilti gun and tags to check them, a deputation from safety were looking out of the cutting machine window at me, after about a minute in front of the slabs which were glowing at about 700 degrees my high vis burst into flames, i looked at it through my visor and thought bugger it and carried on, it wasn't going to get through a molten metal suit anyway! Someone took a photo, high vis jackets a resounding success was the caption under the photo of a man on fire with a hilti gun tagging slabs, them things sure burn well!
    Mark

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    • #3
      One of the conditions of working with me is a basic eyesight test , I ask the person to watch a machine operator for a while and then ask them to write down what tools or other things the operator was using , no need for proper descriptions just what did they see.

      If say a forklift driver was greasing the machine before a days work where did they apply grease.

      I am often amazed by the non ability to see basic things , even people walking up to a lathe and checking it before starting to use it .

      I have often found simple things are overlooked , and the person says someone should have told me , (after they had supposedly been a machinist for several years) .

      Michael

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      • #4
        Originally posted by mike4 View Post

        Why cant there be a return to just learn how to work and operate equipment safely during your early training (apprenticeship etc), and dispense with the time wasting crap.
        What would the safety department do then??? Train people to do it right, always. Don't be silly, that's not good for job security. Pretty soon they will drop the speed to 4 KPH just to prove they are doing something.
        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

        Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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        • #5
          Safety and security are both awful thankless jobs. They are both designed to limit the damage from liability suits. The way it works is that, in order to be responsible, these officers have to read trade rags and otherwise remain current on their knowledge. When the trades rags say a certain threat X was identified the officer has bitten the poisoned apple. He has to prevent the possibility of X from happening else the company is liable for not preventing a situation they knew about. Every single threat, idea, and incident which haipens anywhere can generate a new policy in order to limit liability. There is no limiter here - the more they learn, the more proactive they have to be.

          It's a sucking spiral.
          Last edited by Tony Ennis; 08-03-2014, 08:42 PM.

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          • #6
            In my experience the insurance companies dictate safety polices. We had several inspections a year & when we had an OSHA inspection it was no big deal. I have a safety sign saying "If you can read this your in range"

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            • #7
              Everyone is born ignorant. For many the journey through life doesn't change that, and they die ignorant. It is far easier to be ignorant than not and population expansion seems destined to finally result in only one smart guy left doing all the work for the benefit of the ignorant by a vote of the majority. It doesn't help that so many government programs take the bite out of ignorance but the vote of the majority is present in that, too. They may be ignorant but they know who puts bacon on the plate.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tony Ennis View Post
                ..............When the trades rags say a certain threat X was identified the officer has bitten the poisoned apple. He has to prevent the possibility of X from happening else the company is liable for not preventing a situation they knew about. ...................

                It's a sucking spiral.
                The operative form is "knew, or SHOULD HAVE known..." Anything which someone "knew, or should have known" must be absolutely protected against....

                It is a completely open-ended situation, there is no "safe enough".... which is a problem. There is no amount of training and signage that will prevent an expensive lawsuit which will almost surely end up with a typical "shut up and go away" settlement.

                When it comes to "knew, or should have known", that does NOT seem to apply to the "innocent victim". Nobody suggests that HE "knew, or SHOULD HAVE known" that gasoline vapor is flammable, or that if you pick up an operating lawnmower with your fingers under the deck, they may be damaged or removed.... etc, etc, etc.

                The assumption is that the injured party is an innocent, ignorant, little lamb, who naturally will find and blunder into anything dangerous, through no fault of their own. The "little lamb" must be prevented from getting into trouble, even if the "lamb" actively evades safety devices, removes guards, and bypasses interlocks.

                It is always assumed that the company knows the hazards, and probably is trying to save a few cents by not doing something to mitigate a known hazard. There is seemingly NEVER an assumption that the injured party may have done something that they should not have done, and that they should have reasonably expected would result in injury.

                This is a serious problem, and really needs to be fixed. Otherwise the insurance companies will "own" everything, at least to the extent of dictating allowable activities, operations and policies, even allowable products.
                Last edited by J Tiers; 08-04-2014, 12:50 AM.
                CNC machines only go through the motions.

                Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

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                • #9
                  This is my favorite safety sign.


                  Last edited by yf; 08-04-2014, 01:04 AM. Reason: fix link

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                  • #10
                    I have a safety sign saying "If you can read this your in range"
                    Send it back, it should say "If you can read this you're in range"

                    Regards Ian.
                    You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

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                    • #11
                      JT well put , idiots dont know how to act sensibly but they seem to know how to put in a claim.

                      yf ,very good pic however some one will claim that they couldnt understand what it meant.

                      Flylo , thats a good one , might have to ask the signwriter for a quote.


                      Michael

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                      • #12
                        Where I worked, we had tons of insane safety Nazi's. The favorite saying there was "the only way you won't get hurt is if you don't do anything". Some of the guys tried very hard not to get hurt.
                        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                        Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                        • #13
                          I once asked a shop owner how many people worked at his place. He said "About half of them"!
                          Kansas City area

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                          • #14
                            Wanna know how to be able to get rid of all the ridiculous safety rules? First get rid of all the hungry lawyers.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mike4 View Post
                              JT well put , idiots dont know how to act sensibly but they seem to know how to put in a claim.

                              yf ,very good pic however some one will claim that they couldnt understand what it meant.

                              Flylo , thats a good one , might have to ask the signwriter for a quote.


                              Michael
                              Here you go;
                              https://www.google.com/search?q=sign...x-a&channel=sb

                              I busted a gut when I saw that. Had to have one for my shop. LOL!
                              Off the top of my head, I can think of one major 'safety feature' that puts me in danger nearly every time I have to use it.
                              The spring loaded guard on almost any circular saw, at least when a sharp angle cut is needed. I always have to raise the thing by hand, or it won't lift at all. Not at any sharp angle, anyhow. It catches on the wood and hangs up completely.How many hands am I supposed to have??
                              Lot's more from that arena.

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