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  • Some What of a challenge here.

    I had good results long ago, grinding shaper tool~bits for tool~steel.
    I never realy had to do mild~steel shaper work.

    I got the Gemco on it's feet and all tuned up.
    Put a slab of hot-rolled on it that will be the base for an anvil.
    The surface I am getting with three attempts at bit grinding
    does still have a tad of tare~ing in it. I have used enuff shop made tooling
    that was made before I was, to know that this must have been considered
    "good enuff". It's pretty common, and paralells the same results
    one gets in turning with high~speed hand ground tool bits.

    If any~one has good experience in shaping / planeing in mild steel
    I'm open to suggestions either in general or specific.
    This is a tool-grind issue. The gemco is nearly 5000 lbs.
    and in great shape, so the deficiency is my bit grinding,
    or I'm expecting too much and that is why V-blocks and the like
    of the same vintage I am, usually look just like this.
    Thanks.

  • #2
    Here's a site that has several examples of shaper tool form and results. I've used these forms successfully with my shapers and swear by them. Other factors: table feed/stroke, depth of cut, stroke speed, and type of metal being worked.

    http://artfulbodger.net/docs/shaper/

    Pictures of your setup and tools, and machine settings are helpful.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks !!!!
      will dive into it.

      Lighting needs improving before pics, cell-pics are it for now.
      digi-cam won't speak to our other tronics anymore, I think she's done.

      Comment


      • #4
        Blah. just get some sandpaper and cratex abrasives and such to polish it up after the fact if surface finish is important..

        That, or stop buying mild steel and expecting to cut mirrors outta it. You know its not going to happen, just about any other alloy on earth results in a better finish.
        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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        • #5
          Well I can see right away I'm overly aggresive, in cut depth.
          My finisher is nearly a mirror image to his, but I've been
          going .007 -.008 in depth.

          Guess that's a bit harsh for mild steel. My bad.
          I got away with that in S7 and D2, not hot-rolled hey?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Black_Moons View Post
            stop buying mild steel and expecting to cut mirrors outta it. You know its not going to happen, just about any other alloy on earth results in a better finish.
            Expect? Expect?
            not in my dictionary my friend. Expecting is not a funtion of intelect.

            I do a thing, I see what I get, I begin to explore, I do not ExPECt !

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            • #7
              I think I would focus on more tweaking with the grinder. Grinding dont come overnite (I think). My kid bought a pretty nice
              big belt grinder. I like it, I got use to it. For tool sharpening I feel I have more control and can see it better. Myself, I have
              good results with mystery junk which has a mind for its own. Then there are times to show whos the boss and crank it
              down, times when light cuts are made it gets ripped and stringy.. Pictures would help
              sam

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              • #8
                Light cuts and slow feed helps to cut the ridges down , my first job was running a shaper to rough out die plates for a press , many hours spent on the old girl .I was allowed to weld them together and cut 10 at a time to width and then seperate them as the length was cut to size .

                Then the plant switched to some alloy which cut like a dream but got a longer life.

                Michael

                Michael

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Black_Moons View Post
                  Blah. just get some sandpaper and cratex abrasives and such to polish it up after the fact if surface finish is important..

                  That, or stop buying mild steel and expecting to cut mirrors outta it. You know its not going to happen, just about any other alloy on earth results in a better finish.
                  But you can! I can use a skew finishing bit on mild steel in the planer, light cut, about .002", and finish is nearly mirror, much better than a mill will give.

                  Richard
                  'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Richard P Wilson View Post
                    But you can! I can use a skew finishing bit on mild steel in the planer, light cut, about .002", and finish is nearly mirror, much better than a mill will give.

                    Richard
                    Skew finishing bit ?

                    Thank You, but I can't think of anything outside of woodworking
                    where I've ever heard the word "Skew" unless you are advising
                    a very steep shear angle for the tool-bit?

                    Something around 10 to 15 degrees from vertical?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Old Hat View Post
                      Skew finishing bit ?

                      Thank You, but I can't think of anything outside of woodworking
                      where I've ever heard the word "Skew" unless you are advising
                      a very steep shear angle for the tool-bit?

                      Something around 10 to 15 degrees from vertical?
                      OK, shear bit if you like, I don't want to get tied up in an argument over the correct name for it. All I was trying to do was to point out to Black Moons that you can get a good finish on steel using a planer or shaper.
                      'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

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                      • #12
                        OK, I'll head in that direction.
                        I don't care what to call things, just skew didn't clearly define any geometry
                        I'm familiar with. . . in metal working.

                        I think you are describing an edge closer to vertical than the 45-ish degrees
                        shown in Bodger's pics No?

                        In 1800's terms that's a smoothing bit for finishing Iron tables.
                        My bad for not considering a shot at it like you suggest.

                        Correct me if I'm wrong, and THANKS AGAIN.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The cutter I used in this video is ground per the Moltrecht finishing tool shown in Artful Bodger's photos. It is taking a very light cut on a block of CRS. You can see the reflection of the cutter in the steel. Two passes previous it had been a scale coat.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZFFYIvTLiE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There was an article by Rudy----- in HSM or MW years back, (sorry, cant remember OR pronounce his last name, but he IS/WAS well known.) The article was directed to getting a fine finish with a shaper. Rudy made a modified clapper block in which the tool bit was located such that the edge was as near the vertical line through the clapper pivot as possible. He reasoned that this effectively elliminated any bit chatter or bounce. The results were mirror finishes. His work was done on a smaller AMMCO or Atlas shaper and, I believe he used a tool bit ground with a shearing angle.. I seem to recall that the clapper block was bored to hold two or three different bit sizes, and it was bored, not broached. It relied soley on the set screw to keep the bit square to the face of the clapper block.
                            Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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                            • #15
                              Evan did quite a bit of finish analysis with his shaper here some years ago. Search for Whipp (the shaper's manufacturer). Hopefully the images are still on line.

                              I located the thread and images are still on line.
                              http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...ng-on-finishes
                              Last edited by dp; 08-04-2014, 10:56 AM.

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