Attempt to clear up a thing or two.

[Old Hat]

OK, I like this forum, and use it to both be helpfull and encourageing
and to learn when ever possible. I also find opportunities to provide
clearity to regions that have more missinformation than information.

I have nerve damage in both hands from injuries and wear & tare.
Both hands are fully function, but have regions with no feeling.
Typing on a keyboard is a P I T A for me.
I also have something like dyslexia, where things get inverted . . . .
and gliffs, icons, symbals, etc. convey little or no meaning unless
the image depicts the motion or dynamic involved and not the name.

I hate the spelling in American English and curse the morrons that made it.
I often use fast texting with younger metal-workers that brake all the rules.
It's amazing how much fact and detail can be delivered without ......
spelling Enough and Streight; four charactors pur word that have nothing
on earth or in Heaven to do with the sound they represent.
I also can not read any faster than I talk no matter the advice I'm given.

=========================

I was shaped by the Toolmakers and Machinists and Welders of Old.
They wasted no words. Sencitivity wasn't in their dictionary. Neither was politeness.
Most would give freely of their skills and knowledge, but only if the recipient
showed the proper respect, and applyed themselves without hesitation
to the use of said skills and knowledge.

Most were vary impatient and intollerant. There were no gray areas.
There was no guesswork. There were no lasting pretentions, because...
when the tool or product was done, everyone new who made it happen,
and who was allong for the ride, and EVEN who stood in the way.

Typing up more than a paragraph and staying focused is diffiult for me...
without going off on tangents, because that's how 8, 10, 12, or 16 hour days go.
Just like in Geometry, when things reach a point of tangency, it's not to be dissregarded.
So while discusing a process or a discapline, I stuggle to keep on track.

FURTHER
I find in comunicating technicly, emphasising and de-emphasising, and making paralells
is quite a task using english with proper diction, form, puncuation, and structure.
Maybe if English used all those pretty ornamnets that are found in other languages
it would be a better medium for thought~ representation.

+++++++++++++++++++=

In finallity .. .. .. I write in the same charactor I use in the shop.
If it seems I am being errogant, get over it. I just don't waste time
composing with style or accepted form.
Also, if three tool-makers, two machinists and one tool-and-die welder
have a pow-wow on how a tool or a machine is to be built, we don't say.......

Excuse me, if you don't mind, may I interject here, my Idea based on
my relative experience in the area, which if you will allow me ...
I might suggest is wider and more comprehensive than yours ...la de la de da.

We converse, and it goes quickly to argue-ing, and excitable jesturing
including mechanical sign-language, and the odd insultive hand-signal.
It is very efficient, and the one who rules, is usually he who can make his point
with the most force and speed, but not without backing it up with
a very open and unappologetic display of his prior acheivments
weighed against the lesser prior acheivments of other members of the group.

In a shop of 15 guys, the King might be old, middle-aged, in some cases in his 30's.
He might be self-taught, a farmer's kid turned metal worker, or an Engineer
who found his calling inspite of his education. One of my personal favorites.
He might be a card carry~ing Journeyman.
He might be one who "stold the trade" it was called.
BUT, he will be, above all else . . . . The One who can do can do more
than the others, usually better than the others, sometimes faster than the others,
or some combination of these mentioned.

Read what I write, and extract content that you find may be of worth.
If you are offended... Oh Well. If you disagree, start an argument, supported by
your contentions and findings. What are you smoke'n, been drink'n again,
got a new tin hat? ... ... You wasted it on me, and wasted space on the board.

Do I think I'm right about everything?
About many things Yes, about other thing's I'm carefull to point out my estimations,
my faint recollections, and when I can only offer a hypothesis.
BUT you'll need to actually read my posts to know that. Skimming for
key-words and glossing past the rest won't do it.

Thank You, and have a Great project!

[vpt]

I thought I was close to the end when I saw the word finality.

[Old Hat]

Consider the rest Bonus material!

[PStechPaul]

Good explanation. I happen to be blessed (or perhaps cursed) with an ability to proofread text and almost immediately pick out errors in spelling, punctuation, and grammar, but I also sometimes must use the spell check plug-in or even pop a word into the search engine to ascertain its spelling and meaning. However, I know people who have difficulties like dyslexia or visual aberrations [I had to use spell-check on that word], and as long as I can get the gist of what they are saying, I'm not very critical of their correctness.

I have a pretty good concept of what is involved in machining, on a theoretical basis (from a background in science and engineering), and also from my own (somewhat limited) experience, and what I read on websites and forums such as this. There are almost always exceptions to every "rule", and often conflicting opinions and misunderstandings, so I always filter things by doing research or experimenting or just choosing what seems to be most plausible or reasonable or the opinion of the vast majority. I'll "stick to my guns" when I'm quite sure that I am right, but I'll readily admit if I am proven wrong. It helps to "have a thick skin" on forums, but having a thick skull can be a liability. It's a great thing to be able to have polite discussions with a bit of good-natured kidding and "reality checks" for those things that are really "far out".

[Old Hat]

It helps to "have a thick skin" on forums, but having a thick skull can be a liability.

I like That!

[Frank Ford]

I thought I was close to the end when I saw the word finality.

Instead, you got a reminder that the more you thrash around the deeper you sink in quicksand. . .

[Old Hat]

Didn't you have quicksand in Palo Alto.
I learned a thing today!

[FETOAU]

Read what I write, and extract content that you find may be of worth.

If you are offended... Oh Well.

Thank you for a breath of fresh air in this gagging PC world we live in - where black is white, right is wrong, and more importantly, if you just kinda tried - well that is more important than being correct -- and God help you if you hurt someone's feelings with the content or tone of your communication no matter whether you are correct or not.

Thank you for this post

[Old Hat]

I think I got offended once apon a time.?

Not sure though, cuZ a couple minutes later, I remembered I have a life and moved on.
But it mighta happ'ned I guess. Maybe?

ps:
Yer Wellcome!

[danlb]

Being a dyslexic myself, I can sympathize with you to some degree. It's nice to see that you can create a cohesive paragraph, as illustrated by your first post. The problem is that you don't to bother doing that in most cases. You said so yourself towards the bottom of the first post.

Here is why it matters. It is almost impossible to correctly interpret a sentence that includes jargon, poor spelling and made up words too. It becomes hopeless when you add incomplete sentences and bad sentence structure on top of that.

In your theoretical discussion between machinists, the project would be screwed if every person used their own names for the tools and materials, and then left out mention of steps 2 and 3 of a 10 step process. That's what it's sometimes like when I try to read your posts.

These are the tools I use to combat MY problems. They may help you too:
1) I use spell check. If it does not pass spell check I correct it or change to a word that I can spell.

2) I read my sentences aloud to see if it makes sense to hear it.

3) I try to make sure that my sentences have a clearly defined subject so that the reader does not have to wonder which "IT" I'm referencing in this sentence.

Of course, if you can't be bothered to take the time to make a post readable, you should expect people to encourage you to write less. A thick skin is called for in that case.

Dan

[Old Hat]

I don't dispute that.
If I have the time, energy and pateince I try much harder.
If I'm fatigued or allready on overload, I post from the hip,
especially if answering a question.

I don't expect the author af a question, to wait untill I'm in a more fluid state.
Once maxed that's it. I post, re-read to a point, correct, add some more,,, like now.
Gotta get up in 4 1/2 1st-shift for OT and I'm night shift.

Thank's 4 Pointers !!

as for expecting people to encourage me to write less.......
It will happen anyway and I'm OK with that.
G'nite

[FETOAU]

Dan,

“Old Hats” reference to his dyslexia was not an excuse, but an explanation and acknowledgement of his personal limitations.

I appreciate your efforts to compensate for your limitations and I agree that there has to be a common understanding of words, nomenclature, etc. or else communication is meaningless.

That being said, your reply does not negate “OldHat’s” salient points.

[Black Forest]

... ... You wasted it on me, and wasted space on the board.

And how much of our time and space was wasted reading the novel that you wrote?

This is a HOME shop machinist forum not a professional machinists forum. We don't want to suffer the ego's of members. This is not a place where every minute counts to find a solution and therefore dispense with proper communication formalities. If you are too tired to communicate in a normal manner then wait until you aren't so tired.

I think your first language is/was German correct? I applaud your efforts to write in English. I struggle with German everyday being an American living in Germany.

Even English is a struggle for me! As we get older we learn that many people around us have some type of issues, dyslexia, ADD, Asbergers syndrome, depression, parkinsons, pain in the arse wife, etc. etc.. We don't live in a perfect world and no one except me and Pixman are perfect!

I for one appreciate your posts after I filter out the Old School bullshi!. Having been raised around the classical Old School types in nearly all of my passions I learned a lot but not nearly as much as I could have learned if the Old School types had more understanding of the human model as we do in this day and age of information sharing.

Nearly fifty years ago I read a comic in the newspaper. Maybe it was Bailey but I am not sure. The Captain was explaining to the Sargent that in the modern Army the soldiers need to know why they are being given an order so they will understand why they must do something. The next picture was the Sargent explaining that the enemy had fired a grenade in their direction and so maybe it would be a good...........the next picture was the Captain screaming, duck!

[uncle pete]

Old Hat,
FWIW I'm more than thankful for your effort and experience, and you've obviously spent a lot of time trying to educate us about and on a variety of subjects. I'm a long time open pit miner and we don't mince words or give a **** about politically correct either. Not if you actually know what your doing anyway. There isn't time for that "nice". And I couldn't care less about that anyway. I read some of this forums threads so I can learn, but your posts are and can be very dffficult to read at times. If your unsure of a words spelling, then Google can fix that. Damned if I know how to set up and use the spell check system here. But less wordy for your particular posts I think would be a start, and for sure much less physiological mumbo jumbo since no one cares or gives a **** about that, just explain things like you would to someone else on the shop floor would work far far better. You want non PC or just like the average work site? Dyslexia isn't an excuse, figure out how to at least use Google for what your trying to say. I'm almost the worlds worst speller, but that's what I use, or at least how I do it. But if you can't or won't do that? Well we guess I can tough it through your posts if I really have to and if the topics interesting enough. But your loosing people due to your rambling on about a whole lot of unnessisary bull **** to be honest. So just stick to the subject you obviously know so well. "Just the ****ing fact's and nothing but".

I truly despise the usual amature physiology, even more so when it's mine since I've sure as hell got less than zero training. But I suspect reading between the lines you might have recently joined up here and have then tried to pass some of your knowledge on before your gone. That's reasonable I guess. But obviously this IS still an amature hobbiest level board. Most here don't care or probably even know enough if your right or not. But there are some of us are paying attention I think.

Edit, juheases H. ****ing christ. this forum now edits out any swear words? That's about as anti democratic as you can get. Count me as an ex member as of now.

Pete

[PStechPaul]

This forum is not as bad as one, where I was discussing "scraping" the insulation from a wire, and durned if it didn't find a mild expletive hidden in there and translated it as "s****ing" which was rather difficult to understand. So don't sweat the small stuff. This is a great forum and it has helped me immensely, and I'm grateful for that. I can put up with its peccadillos and those of some who post here. We're all human after all, and the forum is really just a machine.