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This is not far away from me and I am not sure exactly what it does.

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  • This is not far away from me and I am not sure exactly what it does.

    This hydraulic tracer(?) is not far away from me and I maybe would like to buy it. Anyone have any idea how it works? Before I contact the seller and ask for dimensions I thought I would ask here if it might be useful.

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/261636432010?...84.m1423.l2649
    Location: The Black Forest in Germany

    How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

  • #2
    It looks straight forward. The part or pattern to be copied is held between centers. The tracer follows the pattern and the lower tool holder does the cutting. There's usually an adjustment to take roughing passes until the final finishing pass is taken.

    What I don't see is the usual hydraulic pump that provides the force to move the cutting tool coordinating with the upper follower unit.

    Since I don't read German maybe there's mention of the pump in the write up. I suppose it's possible the unit is strictly mechanical with no hydraulics.

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    • #3
      I haven't seen one that set up quite that way, with the servo and tool holder located at the back of the lathe. Usually, they are on the front side. I also do not see any hydraulics. The third photo appears to be the rear of the unit and has what appears to be the fittings for hydraulic connections.

      I would ask for a demonstration before purchasing.

      Some videos and information on tracers here;

      http://www.mimiktracer.com/

      Tracers are fun, but are way down the list of needs unless doing repeat work. I have one for my lathe that I picked up for the magnificent sum of $30.00.
      Last edited by JCHannum; 11-01-2014, 09:23 AM.
      Jim H.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DR View Post
        I suppose it's possible the unit is strictly mechanical with no hydraulics.
        spring loaded with hydraulic ?

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        • #5
          He says in the description that the hydraulic pump unit is not included. For me that is no problem as I have several already.
          Location: The Black Forest in Germany

          How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

          Comment


          • #6
            Set up looks flimsy to me. I guess you run your lathe in reverse or else it would rip the POS right off the carriage mounts, so then what you end up with is still the fact that not only do you have this "thing" hanging way off the carriage as shown in the pic, but you have it on the wrong side of the carriage for accepting load, it's on the flat side "wiggle worm" part of the lathe bed not the self aligning V groove.


            looks like typical Non-thinking Kraut engineering to me. probably something you could live without BF - and in fact probably something everybody could live without...

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            • #7
              I think you are right. I will take a pass on this one.
              Location: The Black Forest in Germany

              How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                Set up looks flimsy to me.
                Why do you think it looks flimsy? Didn't you notice the bloody great cast iron column that the bed and centres for the pattern is bolted to? Of course it's on the rear side of the lathe, otherwise you've got to unbolt the whole assembly before using the normal toolpost.

                Last edited by Mark Rand; 11-01-2014, 11:29 AM.
                Location- Rugby, Warwickshire. UK

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                • #9
                  Here's a two-part video by Keith Fenner showing how he uses his hydraulic tracer.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFyBW...pPfJQATIkfgY2Q

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T2rh...pPfJQATIkfgY2Q

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mounting on the back like this unit is not so unusual. Having it there keeps it out of the way for conventional lathe usage. I wouldn't say it was flimsy, it looks heavy duty. From what I've seen of Weiler equipment I don't think they built junk.

                    My concern would be whether it works. The valve in the pattern follower is delicate and expensive to repair so without seeing it work you don't know what you're buying. I would ask why the pump is not included.

                    One very good use of tracers is for high speed single point thread cutting up to a shoulder. Your pattern would be straight with an angled pull out at the end. In this case the tool would be mounted upside down.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by randm View Post
                      Of course it's on the rear side of the lathe, otherwise you've got to unbolt the whole assembly before using the normal toolpost.


                      yeah but see there-in lies part of the rigidity problemo,,, your cutting force is loaded against a flat oily surface designed to glide - not good - not the way a lathe is intended to be used,

                      when the front part is loaded despite it also being lubricated it actually gets stronger and holds it's position due to the V-way,
                      like I say not well thought out but also does not surprise me as it's german...

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                      • #12
                        BF,

                        It seems to me that if you frequently needed to do complex shapes on a lathe that would be justification to simply look for a decent CNC lathe. There are many styles, from flatbed with horizontal turrets (or QCTP'S) to fully enclosed slant bed machines with turrets co-linear in rotation to the spindle and live tools. Of course I realize you're a master tinkerer and would enjoy the challenge of working with hydraulic tracers but a CNC lathe is so much better and faster to program vs. making templates and messing around.

                        For me, I'm struggling with a dilemma right now regarding a small 13x30 CNC lathe that a friend is willing to gift me. I can't fit it in my shop without giving up my 16x40 manual lathe!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PixMan View Post
                          BF,

                          It seems to me that if you frequently needed to do complex shapes on a lathe that would be justification to simply look for a decent CNC lathe. There are many styles, from flatbed with horizontal turrets (or QCTP'S) to fully enclosed slant bed machines with turrets co-linear in rotation to the spindle and live tools. Of course I realize you're a master tinkerer and would enjoy the challenge of working with hydraulic tracers but a CNC lathe is so much better and faster to program vs. making templates and messing around.

                          For me, I'm struggling with a dilemma right now regarding a small 13x30 CNC lathe that a friend is willing to gift me. I can't fit it in my shop without giving up my 16x40 manual lathe!
                          But PixMan the tracer would be one more justification for my CNC plasma table that I am in the middle of building! I could use the plasma table to cut out the templates for the hydraulic tracer.

                          OK, I will start to look for a CNC lathe and a CNC mill. You talked me into it.
                          Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                          How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                            yeah but see there-in lies part of the rigidity problemo,,, your cutting force is loaded against a flat oily surface designed to glide - not good - not the way a lathe is intended to be used,

                            when the front part is loaded despite it also being lubricated it actually gets stronger and holds it's position due to the V-way,
                            like I say not well thought out but also does not surprise me as it's german...
                            You can argue about the back or front all you want...The fact remains most tracers are back mounted.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                              like I say not well thought out but also does not surprise me as it's german...
                              So are BMW, Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Deckel FP series, Carl Zeiss Jena, Karl Mahr, Leica, etc. etc. etc.
                              Surely all non-thinking kraut engineering........

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