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Semi-OT Thank {deity} for Trade Schools

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  • Semi-OT Thank {deity} for Trade Schools

    My wife and I were watching TV this morning (remember, she works nights, so her evening is my morning). I can't recall the show (it had been DVRed) but before she could fast forward, there was a commercial for a cooking school. That got me to thinking about trade schools and I mentioned to her a frequent topic of discussion - how not everyone benefits from a "college" education. I said "Thank god for trade schools. Where would we be without all the mechanics, electricians, and plumbers?"

    To which she instantly replied "Stuck at home in the dark, knee deep in s**t."

    Leave it to my girl to cut right to the chase. Don't get me wrong. I think everyone benefits from education. It just doesn't have to be a traditional 4-year college degree program. I'll had a really good life thanks to the education I received outside of a college. I just think way too many people, especially guidance counselors, look down on the "trades".
    Kevin

    More tools than sense.

  • #2
    Gotta agree with this, there is an old Amish saying: "Too Much Education, Too Confused."

    Best example of this was a friend of mine who passed away two years ago. He only had grade 4 education, left home young and taught himself a lot of things.
    Worked at lots of different trades, ended up an auto mechanic with his own dealership, then retired in the scrap metal business. For the past 18 winters, he spent the winters in Florida with his wife, and when he died, he was holding the mortgages on 22 different properties.
    Quite good for dropping out at grade 4 !! When asked about his education, he always stated:
    (I attended the school of life".) Lol, Miss that guy, a great friend to many!!

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    • #3
      Tradesman - (noun) - An (more often than not) under-qualified scam artist who never shows up when he says he will.
      Gary


      Appearance is Everything...

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      • #4
        Years ago people used to eat in & sh*t out, now they eat out & sh*t in. I think the old way was simpler & cheaper.

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        • #5
          Thank goodness for trade schools

          Yep, absolutely correct.
          I graduated from Purdue with a EE degree but the two best design engineers I ever had the pleasure of working with had no degrees of any kind. One of them, the best, did not graduate from high school.
          I hired him as a technician 50 years ago and quickly recognized his worth.
          He designed many innovative products for my company. He died this year, God rest him.
          The other had a year of college but did not graduate. I also hired him as a technican and he rose to become our Chief Engineer before he moved on to another company.
          My company has several design engineers that we hired without degrees, just trade school educations and several management people who followed the same path.
          It's all in the person, not the schooling.
          I deplore the lack of trade training in our high schools. When I attended high school (late 40s) you could become an auto mechanic, a carpenter, a plumber or an electrician and get a job in those trades when you graduated.
          Sad that that is not available in most high schools today.
          Bill
          Last edited by Seastar; 12-07-2014, 06:20 PM.
          I cut it off twice and it's still too short!

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          • #6
            Not to steal the thread but..
            I spent the last year attending school board meetings,letters to the editor,petition drives,speaking at exchange club ,and generally hammering at the school to get shop classes back in our high school.

            Last Monday the principal hired a shop teacher. Squeaky wheel and grease? It works.

            Today I wrote a letter to the editor announcing shop classes are back.
            In the letter I made an offer to the first student that shows me four A's in a row,I will give them my Miller wire feed and tig setup.
            Maybe it will light a fire for some kid.

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            • #7
              Great posting 1-800 miner!!

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              • #8
                Ditto Sasquatch, what a cool offer!

                I don't think it's college vs trade schools, i think it's education vs no education. If you want to learn and keep on learning, there's nothing you can't do do (however you get that education). Just so happens that college (especially liberal arts college) is one of the conventional ways of starting on that road and done well can completely open people minds. No better or worse than any other approach.

                Personally I think that a whole lot of young people would do well to go out and get a job before starting college or at least before grad school, it would give them a whole lot more perspective and help them value it more.

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                • #9
                  Things are different over here, I was sent back to university(several times!) to do mechatronics at Cardiff university, I have to say that a Higer National Diploma in the subject was as hard if not harder than a honours degree in chemistry, whilst folk who just do conventional uni education may look down thier nose at trade school as you call it having done both I can tell you categorically that sitting down in a hall answering random chemistry questions is a lot less difficult than walking into a room with a dirty big Festo panel, a big box of tubes, a Mitsibushi or Siemens PLC and a set of problems that you have to design, build and programme in one day, talk about sweat!
                  University degrees over here are getting silly, you can virtually pass one if you do the coursework (40%) and attend (5%), balance at the exam, 1 question right.
                  I can remember being sent to a university the 1st. Time by my employer, on registration day Buisness studies students were asked to follow the lecturer out of the hall first, then accounting, and so on, last ones to be picked up by a lecturer was my lot, Mechanical And production engineering, by that time the 1600 pupils had diminished in size to,........6
                  It would seem the majority of the people are sneering at the minority, yet the majority rely on the minority to give them the lifestyle in keeping with thier "Education".
                  A country needs to make things to make Money, if you don't then the whole country can be bean counters, they will soon run out of beans to count, then they have to borrow them and count someone else's beans, and blade someone else when they have to give them back
                  Semi rant over, practical subjects should once again be mandatory, bloody sports is, and what can you build by kicking a ball?
                  Mark

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                  • #10
                    I always did better with hands-on courses, such as physics and chemistry lab and electronics, while many others struggled with that but did better with theory and abstract concepts like advanced calculus. I've also conceived and built all sorts of mechanical and electronic gadgets, and I think I have an intuitive "feel" for how things work, including most machining operations. After taking the introductory class, I realize that there was also much that I did not know, and of course I am still learning. But I am on my way to earning a solid "A" grade, and I wonder how well those who get low B and C grades might fare if and when they take a job in the metalworking industry, or even do work on their own machine tools. It's almost scary, really, and I am also concerned if one of the low achievers might be working on machines next to me. I don't know of any major disasters that have occurred, but there have been some badly gouged parts and broken end mills.

                    I do see the value of physical education and team sports, although I never like gym classes because I was overweight and could not do some things like rope climbing and gymnastics. It would have been better if I could have done weight training and cardiovascular exercise to get into shape. Also, I think everyone in grade school should take home economics and basic carpentry, metal work, and auto repair. These are no longer gender-specific as they were when I was in school in the 50s and 60s, and with so many single people it's important for everyone to have basic knowledge of many practical skills.
                    Last edited by PStechPaul; 12-08-2014, 01:04 AM.
                    http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                    Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                    USA Maryland 21030

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                    • #11
                      Cooking schools are one of the biggest wastes of money out there just like a lot of these art and photography schools.

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                      • #12
                        +1 for the "rant" from Boslab.
                        Bill
                        Last edited by Seastar; 12-08-2014, 08:37 AM.
                        I cut it off twice and it's still too short!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KJ1I View Post
                          ... there was a commercial for a ... school ...
                          Warning siren at 100 dB

                          Most of the heavily advertised private schools follow the gameplan of advertise some cool sounding, high paying job, sign ambitious kids up for the federal maximum of student loans and collect every penny of the loans as tuition, thats it, all done, end of the gameplan. You'll note the lack of teaching the kids anything useful, and the lack of the kids getting jobs in the field, much less high paying jobs in the field. But the kids do get massive student loans that can't be discharged in bankruptcy and the "school" does make fat stacks of cash, so "all is well".

                          TV commercials are expensive, and guess who's paying...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by goose View Post
                            Tradesman - (noun) - An (more often than not) under-qualified scam artist who never shows up when he says he will.
                            Consider yourself lucky then, Gary. I may not have showed up for the second day of work for you (see the last phrase in the following paragraph).

                            I spent 42 years as a plumber, first an apprenticeship of five years, a stint as a journeyman, a foreman on commercial industrial work for 30 years and a master plumber for those 30 years. Tried supervision for 6 years and went back to the tools... one needs to actually like to go to work.

                            After paying off our mortgage 25 years ago I found myself in a position where I didn't have to goto work for or with someone that tee'd me off. That did a lot for my disposition... I never did quit a job without having one in hand to go to, however. Having a solid reputation does a lot to dispel the claims of anyone regarding my skills or competence. I taught autocad for 16 years at our night school without a degree, and all of our journeymen and apprentices attend continuing education class for the length of their working career.

                            I now have a comfortable retirement, and as much health as I can use. More hobbies than I can adequatly justify, but they are after all hobbies. Unlike work, they can be ignored for the moment and another enjoyable distraction substituted for any one of them.

                            paul
                            paul
                            ARS W9PCS

                            Esto Vigilans

                            Remember, just because you can doesn't mean you should...
                            but you may have to

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Seastar View Post
                              I deplore the lack of trade training in our high schools. When I attended high school (late 40s) you could become an auto mechanic, a carpenter, a plumber or an electrician and get a job in those trades when you graduated.
                              Sad that that is not available in most high schools today.
                              Bill
                              My point, absolutely. When I was in high school, we too, had all sorts of shop classes. One I took was print shop. They say that once you get printer's ink in your blood, it's there forever. That is absolutely true. Those classes allowed me to get a part time job with a publisher while I was in the Air Force to help out with my growing family. And I still have the printing press (a Chandler & Price 8x12) I bought 45 years ago. I still love the smell of printer's ink.

                              I feel sorry for the kids in school today. Our local high school (there is only 1 in town) offers no shop classes. While I was on the zoning board, I frequently met the members of the school board. I once asked why all the shop classes were discontinued. One member told me the liability was just too high. Another told me it was "their job" to prepare "everyone" for college. Sad. Where does that leave those that love to work with their hands?
                              Kevin

                              More tools than sense.

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