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I finally got my balls back!!!

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  • I finally got my balls back!!!

    How's that for a catchy title?? I built this 3 ball governor a few years ago when I was attempting to convert my Webster to a hit and miss engine. It worked--"sorta/kinda" but not really well. The governor then set up on a shelf for a few years until I built the Rupnow engine, and I robbed the balls of the governor to use, and had to modify them to fit the governor on the Rupnow Engine, but they were too heavy, so they were swapped out for a different ball. I couldn't put them back on my 3 ball governor because I had drilled out the #5-40 threads that held them to the governor arms. This morning, after finding them languishing in a can of "Odds and ends" I drilled them out for a 0.225" diameter brass rod, Loctited it in place, and redrilled and tapped the #5-40 holes through them. I gave them a bit of a polish and reinstalled them on my governor. I don't currently have a use for the governor, but if I decide to use it on something in the future, at least it is all back together and ready to go----with shiny balls!!!
    Brian Rupnow

  • #2
    Brian,
    Can you spare two for ower dawg, his previous owner [ rescue dog ] mislaid his ?
    .

    Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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    • #3
      You can get prosthetic testicles for "yower dawg":

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3156424.html

      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png

      Paul: www.peschoen.com
      P S Technology, Inc. www.pstech-inc.com
      and Muttley www.muttleydog.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by John Stevenson View Post
        Brian,
        Can you spare two for ower dawg, his previous owner [ rescue dog ] mislaid his ?
        John,

        Have a private talk with the dawg's doctor. On one visit to a local veterinary I saw a brochure for "Neuticles". Available in several sizes to replace originals either lost or worn out. Pick the largest available and give the guy huge respect in the neighborhood.
        .
        "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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        • #5
          Depending on how big your dog is, I see some wanna be cowboys driving around her with Chrome "bulls balls" hanging off their trailer hitch. If they were the right size for yer dawg, I could probably lift a pair and send them to you. You will have to pay for the shipping though---Brian
          Brian Rupnow

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          • #6
            That governor has nice utilitarian lines, Brian. Its amazing how many devices depended on such a simple concept. It would be a nice technology exhibit if it had a variable speed electric motor and feedback attached to the output lever to demonstrate the principle of fly ball controls

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            • #7
              I have thought different times about hooking this governor up to run in conjunction with one of my modern 4 cycle engines. Going thru all the steps in the process last night, I'm not sure if that is possible. A governor works fine with a hit and miss engine, because when the engine speed exceeds the "set point", the governor will engage the mechanism that keeps the exhaust valve off it's seat and cause it to hold the exhaust valve open until the rpm falls below the "set point" whereby the governor will release the mechanism and let the exhaust valve close and the engine will start firing again. The engine can not fire when the exhaust valve is held open. The carburetor on a hit and miss engine has no throttle at all---it is always set to run "full throttle". The strength of the governor arm return springs and the weight of the brass balls and the gearing to the brass balls is what determines where this "set point" is. Thus, the rpm of the engine can be adjusted to the speed you want by adjusting the strength of the springs, the weight of the balls , or the gear ratio which determines how fast the balls spin. The one thing to remember here, is that the action of the governor is not "incremental"---Meaning that it can only stop the engine from firing or let it resume firing, with no intermediate points between the two. Now, if we look at hooking the governor up to the throttle on the carburetor of a conventional 4 cycle i.c. engine, the logical place for a control link would be between the governor arm and the throttle lever. Lets think about this. We take a guess at where our "set point " will be for a desired rpm (say about 2000 rpm). Let us assume that we want to start the engine with it's throttle in a position just above idle speed. Due to the nature of a centrifugal governor, we would have to over-ride the mechanism to get the throttle into this position. The engine starts, we release the over-ride, and the engine revs up to the governors "set point" of 2000 rpm. At that point, the governor balls have flown outward under centrifugal force until the linkage begins to close the engine throttle. If we have the linkages adjusted proportionally, the governor will begin to close the throttle, the engine will begin to lose rpm, and feeling the effect of this, the governor will again cause the engine to speed up to the "set point" rpm. by opening the throttle. So--our conclusion is that the engine can never rev up higher than the "set point". Now let us assume that the engine is driving something that places a load on the engine. If the load comes onto the engine while the engine is running at 2000 rpm, the rpm will then fall off, but the throttle will still be in the same position it held at 2000 rpm under "no load". The governor will then have to open the throttle even wider than it's normal set point to pick the rpm back up to 2000 rpm. If it over revs beyond the 2000 rpm set point the governor should be able to recognize this and back the throttle off. The problem as I see it, is that the governor now has to recognize intermediate throttle positions instead of just "run" or "not run", because under load, the engine rpm is going to drop off from what it would be under "no load' even though the throttle lever remains in exactly the same position. Am I overthinking this? I believe Bob Shore's Silver Angel engine has a centrifugal governor on it, but it may be a hit and miss engine--I don't know.
              Last edited by brian Rupnow; 01-22-2015, 05:12 PM.
              Brian Rupnow

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              • #8
                I have just confirmed that the Silver Angel was indeed a hit and miss engine, and that the governor did hold the exhaust valve open during the "miss" cycles. I am interested in knowing if a conventional, throttled engine can be controlled properly by a flyball governor.
                Brian Rupnow

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                • #9
                  Over thinking it Brian.

                  Most diesel engines have a centrifugal governor inside the fuel pump that works the fuel valve so basically same as a ball governor.



                  And an engine is an engine.

                  Simple lawn mowers work by the fan on the flywheel blowing on a vane that closes the throttle.

                  Go for it.
                  .

                  Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



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                  • #10
                    Have to agree with Sir John.

                    I see no reason it could not work. The fly-balls will move out in proportion to the speed. If the desired "set point" speed were set to be at the place where the balls were at 50% of their motion, any deviation from that speed would either open or close the throttle, as required.

                    Fly-ball governors were used to control stationary steam engines by throttling the steam supply.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by brian Rupnow View Post
                      I have just confirmed that the Silver Angel was indeed a hit and miss engine, and that the governor did hold the exhaust valve open during the "miss" cycles. I am interested in knowing if a conventional, throttled engine can be controlled properly by a flyball governor.
                      It's easy to see you weren't a farm kid!

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                      • #12
                        A flyball or any other kind of governor needs to be coordinated with the engine, carburetor and linkage so that the movements are suitable amounts. If a change in speed moves the throttle more than necessary, the governor will "hunt", never giving a stable speed. If the movement is too little, the governor will have too much "droop" or variation of speed with load. With any simple governor, the speed will always drop somewhat with increased load, otherwise the governor cannot maintain the increased throttle opening required by the load. If the speed increased back to the no-load speed, the governor would return the throttle to the no-load position. So springs, weights, linkages, etc. have to be suitable for the application.
                        Don Young

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                        • #13
                          Arcane--I was a farm kid. What are you talking about?
                          Brian Rupnow

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                          • #14
                            On second shift at the Power Plant, I used to stand next to a huge steam-driven
                            boiler feed pump, that had been added between to boilers.

                            These twin units could run so hard that their individual electric boiler feed pumps
                            couldn't keep up. The steam unit picked up the slack.
                            If I was patient I could watch an arm nearly four feet long, move just barely perceptibly
                            in response to a faint pressure drop, and hear the roar in the boiler room
                            increase by ever so little.

                            It was quite a rush.
                            Governors are so Cool!!!

                            The metal ones not the ones at the Capitol (more often than not).
                            Last edited by Old Hat; 01-23-2015, 09:02 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brian Rupnow View Post
                              Arcane--I was a farm kid. What are you talking about?
                              I don't think he got the jist of your wondering.
                              Do you mean, adding a governor to an engine not built for
                              or intended to be controlled by one?

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