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220 1PH to 440 3Ph VFD availability?

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  • 220 1PH to 440 3Ph VFD availability?

    Hi Everyone,

    Sometime back, I am quite sure that I have seen suggestions on this forum that VFDs are available to obtain 440 3PH from a 220 single phase input.

    I have e-mailed three retailers and only had one reply that they don't handle any that will do this.

    Can anyone shed some light on this? I have a friend that I am trying to help and so far, no luck in finding anything.

    His requirement is only a 3/4 HP lathe so we're not talking much of a load.

    Thanks in advance for any help!
    Best wishes to ya’ll.

    Sincerely,

    Jim

    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" - Thomas Edison

    "I've always wanted to get a job as a procrastinator but I keep putting off going out to find one so I guess I'll never realize my life's dream. Frustrating!" - Me

    Location: Bustling N.E. Arizona

  • #2
    Im thinking there will need to be a transformer prior to the VFD. JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

    Comment


    • #3
      Many 115V 1P input to 230V 3P output types, but I am not aware of one as you describe.
      1601

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JRouche View Post
        Im thinking there will need to be a transformer prior to the VFD. JR
        That's what I am starting to think now also.

        I saved the sites for 3 different suppliers back when I was looking for myself and thought one of them had a VFD that would do it.

        Something about my memory not what it used to be perhaps - nah, I'm still young!

        Yaah right!

        Best wishes to ya’ll.

        Sincerely,

        Jim

        "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" - Thomas Edison

        "I've always wanted to get a job as a procrastinator but I keep putting off going out to find one so I guess I'll never realize my life's dream. Frustrating!" - Me

        Location: Bustling N.E. Arizona

        Comment


        • #5
          I am sure SMVector Lenze AC Tech has VFD to convert to that voltage and made in USA.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JRouche View Post
            Im thinking there will need to be a transformer prior to the VFD. JR
            How about a transformer before a RPC rather than a VFD? Or after a RPC?

            Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              An approximation, that is close enough to work, is available in the UK: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/drivesdirec...td_W0QQ_fsubZ5
              Not cheap, but will do the job if a rotary can't be whomped up.

              These are 240 1ph to 415v 3ph VFD at ratings well above the 3/4hp desired. I suspect the larger ones assume a 3ph input but didn't click on these.
              I have never seen these in the US, but in Europe where 220-240v 1ph is the
              standard power supply there is a small demand for these inverters to run 400-440V single voltage motors 3ph motors. This is analogous
              to the 115 to 230V VFD sold in US.
              Last edited by sch; 02-24-2015, 12:04 AM.
              Steve

              Comment


              • #8
                For only 3/4 HP you can use a 500 VA (or larger) 220-220 transformer connected as an autotransformer to get the 440V. Most smaller VFDs will work on single phase (although often at reduced power) so you might need a 1.5 or 2 HP VFD. Another possibility is using capacitors and diodes to boost the 220 VAC to 600 VDC for the DC link. Here is a circuit and simulation results:



                Some capacitors that might be suitable:

                http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Voltage...item35e564a694

                http://www.ebay.com/itm/Run-Capacito...item3ccb0432c9

                A transformer that should work:
                http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACME-Transfo...-/281592283536
                Last edited by PStechPaul; 02-24-2015, 12:27 AM.
                http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                USA Maryland 21030

                Comment


                • #9
                  Stepup transformer for 220->440V 1ph rated at 1kva feeding a 440v VFD would likely be the cheapest route, provided the VFD accepts 1ph input. Some will, but will be derated about 30-40% from their
                  3ph input rating. So for 3/4hp motor at least a 1hp VFD would be advised. Some 440v VFD will fault on 1ph input and refuse to work, need to look at the manual to check this. Most likely a
                  four winding (two primary/two secondary) transformer would work with the two primaries in parallel and the secondaries in series. Needless to say dealing with 440v at multi-ampere capacity
                  is a dicey thing to do if you are unfamiliar with the NEC.
                  Steve

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As usual, thanks to ya'll so far for the great help!

                    Steve, I dug this transformer out as you must have been replying. I think this is what you are referring to:





                    So, will this transformer work? I am concerned about its age seeing as how it doesn't have a ZIP code in the address.

                    Here is the motor nameplate that I should have posted right away - was having lots of trouble w/Photobucket being SUPER slow!

                    Last edited by jhe.1973; 12-28-2018, 03:22 PM.
                    Best wishes to ya’ll.

                    Sincerely,

                    Jim

                    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" - Thomas Edison

                    "I've always wanted to get a job as a procrastinator but I keep putting off going out to find one so I guess I'll never realize my life's dream. Frustrating!" - Me

                    Location: Bustling N.E. Arizona

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You have to reverse connect it, and it's 208 not 240 on the input. It's also an auto transformer. Take great care....

                      That's a Dahlanger wound 2 speed motor. I has a similar motor on an Emco lathe. With a vfd just select the higher speed (which will be 1725 rpm +/- on 60hz), and use the vfd to slow it down (or speed up) No serious loss in performance over switching the two windings - you still have 0.2kw at 30hz - 850 rpm (instead of 0.27). If you connect it in the low speed config you'll have lousy torque at 120hz and not much more headroom to increase speed (if that's important).
                      Last edited by lakeside53; 02-24-2015, 01:50 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why the four windings?

                        I think there is a bit of confusion going on here, I am certainly confused.
                        Last edited by The Artful Bodger; 02-24-2015, 01:59 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
                          You have to reverse connect it, and it's 208 not 240 on the input. It's also an auto transformer. Take great care....

                          That's a Dahlanger wound 2 speed motor. I has a similar motor on an Emco lathe. With a vfd just select the higher speed (which will be 1725 rpm +/- on 60hz), and use the vfd to slow it down (or speed up) No serious loss in performance over switching the two windings - you still have 0.2kw at 30hz - 850 rpm (instead of 0.27). If you connect it in the low speed config you'll have lousy torque at 120hz and not much more headroom to increase speed (if that's important).
                          Lousy torque is just what my friend was complaining about and he thought it was due to his running the lathe on 220V. I think he has a phase converter of some sort but I have to talk w/him more about his installation.

                          Trouble is he is 9 driving hours away so I can't just pop over.

                          He also says he thinks of electricity as a black art & doesn't know much about it.

                          I looked at the digital inverter that Steve supplied the link for, and I think that might be the simplest solution for him & whoever he has hook it all up. That is if they export to us in the colonies.

                          Best wishes to ya’ll.

                          Sincerely,

                          Jim

                          "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" - Thomas Edison

                          "I've always wanted to get a job as a procrastinator but I keep putting off going out to find one so I guess I'll never realize my life's dream. Frustrating!" - Me

                          Location: Bustling N.E. Arizona

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Having to power 440V two speed motors is common. I went through that recently. What I did was to first make 240VAC three phase using an RPC, then used 3 single phase transformers to step the voltage up. There are other ways.
                            metalmagpie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              jhe: the transformer you pictured is a 3 phase transformer which can be used as a 1 phase transformer, but inputting 220-230v into the secondary rated at 208 will result in
                              as much as 486v on the 440v side, which may be a bit much for your 415v motor. There are ways around this which I will omit for now. Your transformer has two iron
                              cores, so if used as a 1ph device, it will not handle the full 1kva rating, probably considerably less. So IMO, is marginal for what you need. I don't think it is an autoformer
                              but an ohm meter could verify that.

                              When I mentioned "four windings" I was thinking of common isolation types which have two primaries and two secondaries which are series or parallel connected to provide
                              120/240 on one side and 120/240 or 240/480 on the other. 1phase assumed.
                              Steve

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