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16" Swing Lathe - Dorian CXA or CA Dorian QCTP? Any G0509G owners?

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  • 16" Swing Lathe - Dorian CXA or CA Dorian QCTP? Any G0509G owners?

    I'm in the market for a larger lathe, the Grizzly G0509G is in the lead at the moment. I'm pricing QCTP's and thinking about going with the Dorian but both the CXA and CA are listed as fitting 16 inch swing lathes. I'd appreciate any suggestions and if there are any G0509G owners on the forum can you tell me what the width of the compound is? Thanks!

  • #2
    The most important number is center height above the compound. Swing is only part of the answer.

    Comment


    • #3
      That lathe comes with a piston type QCTP. If you prefer the wedge type, I would recommend getting the comparable size so you can, at least, use the supplied toolholders. You can probably check with Grizzly to find what the toolpost is, but I wouls suspect it is CXA.
      Jim H.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by SVS View Post
        The most important number is center height above the compound. Swing is only part of the answer.
        This is correct.

        I have a Victor 1640 lathe and it came to me (used) with the larger CA/400 size Dorian toolpost. With the Dorian holders I have, the toolholder blocks drop to just about .050"-.060" off the top of the compound to get 1" square shank carbide insert tools on center. And I prefer those holders to 3/4" because they are so much more rigid.

        When I bought some more economical import toolholder blocks from Jeff @ Tools4Cheap, I found they were thicker than Dorian holders under the slot for the square shank tools so I had to mill 3mm off the bottoms. No issues for me because I use a good carbide insert face mill, but they are fairly hard.

        I was just looking at that lathe on Grizzly's website. Reading the description, this disturbed me:

        "a tailstock that was precisely tuned at the factory with a lock that could accommodate a torque wrench (the tailstock center can be torqued down to bring it to exact center with the spindle center),"

        What?? You mean the tailstock isn't otherwise on center with the spindle? OMG
        Last edited by PixMan; 03-07-2015, 08:53 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by coolidge View Post
          ... but both the CXA and CA are listed as fitting 16 inch swing lathes. ...
          I have a CXA Dorian Super QCTP on a 14" lathe (equivalent to Jet's GH-1440W-1)

          Dorian's catalog below provides dimensions for their various tool posts with which
          you can determine center height.

          http://www.doriantool.com/wp-content...es_catalog.pdf

          FWIW, Page 34 of 100 (printed p32) indicates the SDN35CXA tool post is predicted
          to be suitable for 14-17" lathes. The SDN40CA is predicted to fit 16-20" lathes.

          There can be exceptions. Check the dimensions.

          .

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          • #6
            The manual on page 39 shows the tool holders that fit the QCTP, and states they are all 300 series (Grizzly's equivalent to CXA) size.

            That doesn't really answer your question, about whether you could also fit a CA QCTP on it.

            Do you want to use 1" tools (CA), or 3/4" (CXA)?

            Comment


            • #7
              I have a Dorian CXA on a 14 x40 lathe. No issues at all and I certainly wouldn't want to downsize to BXA, or go "up" to the CA. CA is pretty bulky.

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              • #8
                I have an 18X40 lathe that had a Dorian D40ca tool post on it when I bought it. The CA is a little bulky as lakeside53 mentioned but with bulkiness comes rigidity. It takes 1" tool bits and I have also bought an import holder for it that works fine at about 1/8 Dorians retail price.

                Brian
                OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                THINK HARDER

                BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guys thanks for the input. I had emailed Grizzly for dimensions of the compound and compound to center height but no response. So approaching this from a different angle, specs on the Dorian CA are clear you can't use 3/4 inch tooling and I guess I would like that option so I'm going to go with the Dorian CXA which accepts both 3/4 and 1 inch tooling. For this particular lathe 1 1/4 inch tooling may have been overkill anyway, while the 1 1/4 inch tooling is more rigid if the rest of the lathe isn't rigid enough to benefit from that its not really worth the expense right.

                  In other news I have expanded my search to include the 16x40 Taiwan lathes, on average about $5k more but if I'm going to drop $8k on a G0509G...maybe another $5k to step up in quality, get variable spindle speeds, etc. might not be a bad idea.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PixMan View Post
                    I was just looking at that lathe on Grizzly's website. Reading the description, this disturbed me:

                    "a tailstock that was precisely tuned at the factory with a lock that could accommodate a torque wrench (the tailstock center can be torqued down to bring it to exact center with the spindle center),"

                    What?? You mean the tailstock isn't otherwise on center with the spindle? OMG
                    The advertised tolerance for the difference between headstock and tailstock centerline height is .0015 yet guys turning rifle barrels between centers are looking to hit what .0000 to .0003 range. Adjusting the tailstock with a torque wrench to hit that with repeatability I think is the idea there.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by coolidge View Post
                      The advertised tolerance for the difference between headstock and tailstock centerline height is .0015 yet guys turning rifle barrels between centers are looking to hit what .0000 to .0003 range. Adjusting the tailstock with a torque wrench to hit that with repeatability I think is the idea there.
                      That the center height changes by having it torqued to a specific setting just tells me that it's a POS lathe. Every lathe's tailstock should be on center....ALWAYS. The fact that they tell you it changes has me convinced it's a machinery oriented "Flexible Flyer."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bborr01 View Post
                        I have an 18X40 lathe that had a Dorian D40ca tool post on it when I bought it. The CA is a little bulky as lakeside53 mentioned but with bulkiness comes rigidity. It takes 1" tool bits and I have also bought an import holder for it that works fine at about 1/8 Dorians retail price.

                        Brian

                        If I had a 18x40 I'd go for a CA also

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by coolidge View Post
                          Guys thanks for the input. I had emailed Grizzly for dimensions of the compound and compound to center height but no response. So approaching this from a different angle, specs on the Dorian CA are clear you can't use 3/4 inch tooling and I guess I would like that option so I'm going to go with the Dorian CXA which accepts both 3/4 and 1 inch tooling. For this particular lathe 1 1/4 inch tooling may have been overkill anyway, while the 1 1/4 inch tooling is more rigid if the rest of the lathe isn't rigid enough to benefit from that its not really worth the expense right.

                          In other news I have expanded my search to include the 16x40 Taiwan lathes, on average about $5k more but if I'm going to drop $8k on a G0509G...maybe another $5k to step up in quality, get variable spindle speeds, etc. might not be a bad idea.
                          Are you sure about that standard CXA holder will take 1 inch? none of mine 20 or so will... 3/4 is your max. And 3/4 works fine on a 14x40.

                          BTW, if you have 1 inch or 1 1/4 shanks, just mill them down to 3/4 or whatever.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well that's what the Dorian catalog says, both D1 and D2 CXA tool holders will hold 1 inch tools. The tool holder capacity is 1.00 x 0.75 inch deep. So a 3/4 inch tool will fit flush and a 1 inch tool will stick out 1/4 inch.

                            On the other hand the Aloris CXA tool holders are smaller than the Dorian's CXA for some reason. The standard Aloris CXA tool holder capacity is only 0.75 x 0.625 and their 'oversize' tool holder is only 1.00 x 0.625 vs the Dorian. The Aloris CA tool holders are closer in capacity to the Dorian CXA's.

                            In other news I moved up $5k in price and I'm considering a Taiwan 16x40 with EVS, its sold under a bunch of brand names but Grizzly has the best price right now.
                            Last edited by coolidge; 03-07-2015, 04:46 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              With 1 inch you're talking about width of tool holder. Most are sold in terms of height, which is 3/4 for a Dorian CXA (and my Chinese tool holders). Width becomes more of an an issue when you mill down the height of a larger tool to fit in a smaller holder. I have tools that stick out an inch to the side of the holder and they work fine. Obviously it depends on what you so with them.

                              Dorian sure extracts a pound of gold for their posts and holders... I love the tool post, but I added about 10 Chinese holders to my collection after pricing more Dorian. Can't see any difference in performance, but... it sucks having metric socket head cap screws in half my holders
                              Last edited by lakeside53; 03-07-2015, 08:37 PM.

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