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Lest we forget 100 years later...

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  • Lest we forget 100 years later...

    100 years ago, the land assault on the Gallipoli peninsula started.

    There has been a dawn service held on the beach the Anzacs landed on that day. Here is some footage from last year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stb0asxF6bM

    The cliffs in the back ground were what they were supposed to take in the morning before dashing across the peninsula by evening. Needless to say, things did not go as planned.
    Design to 0.0001", measure to 1/32", cut with an axe, grind to fit

  • #2
    Ataturk's words:

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

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    • #3
      Winston Churchill was one of the architects of Gallipoli and was one of the designers of the Middle East after WWI and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. We are even now paying the price of folly in establishing the present boarders in the Middle East. Contrast Churchill in later life as the PM of Great Brittian in WWII. What a difference 30 years experience can make in the evolution of a great man.

      I recall a series some years ago on WW I on the History Channel. One of the regular commentators was an aged WWI vet, Winston LaRouche. He was clear-headed and personable at 95 plus his remarks on Galopoli from a prepspective of a young man in Army training were memorable. As I recall it was: "The Turks are doomed"; followed by "What the hell!"; and in the end silent anxiety in an Army barracks full of ignorant farm boys soon to be off - possibly to their own Gallipoli. He spun fascinating commentary that brought events 85 years before into immediacy as we then ventured into Iraq.

      When I was a boy my neighbor was Art Perteet, a veteren of WW I. He was gassed (his left arm and hand still bore scars), I remember him commenting on the incredible loss and waste, lives thrown away by a leadership who must be seen to do "something". That must be a driving force in human nature: if you don't know what to do, do something wrong and then you'll have something to fix. The blame is always less for wrong action than it is for no action.

      In 1915 the war was static in a trenchline from Holland to Switzerland so a new front was a tempting prospect for the firey elements of British goverment. And the result was Gallipoli. Never despise the enemy as a means of promoting a campaign.

      I quess the lesson is listen to the old farts.
      Last edited by Forrest Addy; 04-24-2015, 07:32 PM.

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      • #4
        Gallipoli, Isandlwana, Balaclava, Jutland, The Somme, Market Garden - brave men dying because the qualities of leadership were, first and foremost, determined by blue-blooded, aristocratic rank rather than by tactical acumen.

        Case in point: General John French (1st Earl of Ypres), the initial supreme commander of the British Expeditionary Force in WWI (6 divisions, mind you) was so incompetent, contentious and disagreeable that he was finally relieved of command, and in typical British style was knighted - for his incompetence one can only assume. He was replaced by General Douglas Haig (1st Earl Haig) the principle architect of The Battle Of The Somme, a debacle considered ... " The worst day in the history of the British Army" 60,000 casualties measured in a matter of hours which accomplished absolutely nothing. The string of knighthoods, awards and glowing citations reads into next week where Haig is concerned as well.

        I salute the men who served and fell at Gallipoli.

        EDIT:
        Of course, in my own country, during the Civil War, the Union was led by an equally inept group of generals so perhaps I shouldn't cast asparagus.

        Brave men, regardless of the land of their birth, who risk everything for their country's welfare deserve better than this.
        Last edited by DATo; 04-25-2015, 06:45 AM.

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        • #5
          The Newfoundland Regiment was at Gallipoli, survived that nightmare just to be sent to Europe. On the first day of the Somme there were 778 men in the regiment, all volunteers for mother England. 15 minutes after they went over the top they had 68 men left. Good men slaughtered by incompetent generals.
          The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

          Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

          Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DATo View Post
            Of course, in my own country, during the Civil War, the Union was led by an equally inept group of generals so perhaps I shouldn't cast asparagus.
            If Stonewall Jackson had not been killed by a confused confederate picket, the Civil War would have gone much longer... and maybe the outcome different. Robert E Lee was lost without Stonewall Jackson to implement his tactical genius.

            Even the best of the Union (US Grant, a drunkard) and Sherman (possibly insane) were not even close. Little Napoleon (General McClellan) was one of the best assets of the Confederate army... despite being a Union General, for awhile in charge of all the Union forces, and than in charge of the Army of the Potomac. It didn't help that Lincoln thought himself a tactical genius.
            Last edited by tmarks11; 04-26-2015, 10:03 PM.

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            • #7
              I think we must surely all agree all wars are futile and costly in terms of human life.As you know I am a born pacifist who does believe in defending my country from attack.Maybe that makes the word pacifist redundant? I don't know anyway.All wars imho are madness,and my heart goes out to those who become cannon fodder,such as in ww1 and subsequent madness.Let us all be reminded of the madness of it all and remember all those souls who were massacred as a result and their wives mothers and children left behind.All so avoidably sad, sad, sad.Alistair
              Please excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

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              • #8
                Sobering data:
                It is estimated that during the short period of the 20th century, between 150 and 200 million humans lost their lives at the hands of other humans due to wars, genocide, purges etc, which is apparent it is part of our evolutionary make up, I have always felt can be attributed essentially to Human Tribalism.
                The 21st century is shaping up no different.
                I live in a city that just built (at great cost) a human right museum, although their intentions may be noble, I think they are flogging a dead horse!
                Max.

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                • #9
                  It is a very sad and sobering thought to me, that my uncle lost a leg at the Dardanelle campaign, this had a profound effect upon him for the rest of his life My father was in France 1916-1918, He also was effected and spoke of the stupidity of the high command, for whom he did not have a high regard. It is absolutely amazing that as the ordinary soldiers bled and died for their country The industrialists got richer and richer by the day.
                  I am always overawed and from a technical standpoint and thoroughly fascinated by the big arms works & the high skills developed But and it is a big BUT, Thoroughly saddened as to the sad reason for this effort.

                  Fast forward to the present our past "Great" leader & wonderful, & suddenly mega rich Socialist Tony Blair, led the U.K. into five wars, And this debacle has caused nothing but misery for many of our ex service men and the folks of the lesser tribes in Syria and Iraq.

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                  • #10
                    During the day when Inter- Continental Ballistic Missiles were the news topic of the day and even now we can "kill the world over many times" but we are unable to feed the starving people. Something is not right.

                    Ray

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                    • #11
                      A lot of good men slaughtered by incompetent cowards who were never taken to task for the crimes they committed .
                      It is time that the archives were made public domain and the real truth was told about the so called great leaders .

                      Michael

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                      • #12
                        My father in law was in the army, never saw active combat was always a rahrah go military ready to serve and die for my country kind of guy. My brother was in the army, served in Vietnam, never talked about it, his wife pulled shrapnel out of him as it worked its way to the surface. I talked to him 1 time about it, he killed people. He said the rage was just under his skin. He died a few year ago from pancreatic cancer. Seems he was exposed to agent orange too.

                        I have no idea of answers. It is obvious there are those to whom war makes profits and could care less about the suffering.

                        I offer that any war that needs to be fought should require the sons and daughters of all the politicians and defense contractors go to the front lines. I know it will never happen today but in WW ll many unlikely people did, actors, sports figures, kids of politicians.

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                        • #13
                          Not the typical "Hollywood war hero"
                          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne...merican_actor)
                          For all the 101st Airbornes their were numerous units like this
                          http://www.auburn.edu/~noekenn/173fa.html
                          Unsung units that did their part
                          Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

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                          • #14
                            Since it _is_ the 100th anniversary of WWI in general I've set myself a project to read a bunch of books on the war. Some so far

                            - The Guns of August ... Barbara Tuchman. A classic, but only really goes into the immediate stuff leading up to the war (basically, June & July of 1914, as well as the first month, August.)

                            - Dreadnaught - Robert Massie, talks about the naval arms race between the UK and Germany.

                            - Castles of Steel -- sequel to Dreadnaught ... naval history of the war. Both of these are pretty good reads.

                            - Rules of the Game - Andrew Gordon -- another naval history of wwi, primarily on the british side, and primarily covering the leadership of the Grand Fleet, Fisher, Beattie & Jellicoe and how they became the officers they were. a good book, but more about them than about "WWI" One of the interesting points that I got out of this book is how much the world changed from when Fisher, Jellicoe & Beattie joined the service to when Jutland was fought ... When they started, it was still "Wooden Ships & Iron Men" (at least some...), muzzle loading cannon, with battles fought (or expected to be fought) at ranges of 100's of yards, and orders and signalling still in the age of Nelson. By Jutland things were very very different.

                            - July 1914 by Sean McMeekin ... day by day from Sarajevo to the initial battles. Sort of another version of "The Guns of August"

                            The War That Ended Peace by Margaret MacMillan ... my favorite so far, goes into a lot of the history leading up to the war, from Bismarck's dismissal, the naval arms race, emergence of the treaties, etc, etc, etc.


                            On the list to read are "Proud Tower" and "1913: In search of hte world before the great war" ... both are apparently about the world before wwi ...


                            If anyone has any other recommendations, I'd be glad to hear them!

                            Thanks

                            Frank

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                            • #15
                              Not sure which is more annoying, arm-chair generals or arm-chair pacifists.
                              Gary


                              Appearance is Everything...

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