Lest we forget 100 years later...

[loose nut]

There are well over a million WW1 war graves from the Commonwealth countries around the world but the bulk of them are in France and Belgium. At least as many more that are missing.

Your right about mass slaughter not being new. The industrial revolution in Europe just allowed the Ur-o-pea-ons to do it faster and more efficiently then others before them. A trait that has been expanded on since WW2 around the world.

As a race we are war like and most likely to remove our self's from history. Can't say we will be missed.

[fjk]

First, since I started the books subthread ... thanks to the others who posted
some book recommendations ... all are now on my list!

Second ... some folks mentioned the Commonwealth War Graves... In 2000 or 2001
while on a business trip to London I had some off-time so a colleague and I decided
to take a day-trip to Paris on the Chunnel for fun. When the train was zipping along
between Calais and Paris we occasionally saw a Union Jack flying off in the distance.
The flags were far enough away that we could barely make them out, we couldn't
see anything more. Then the train passed close enough to one that we could make
out all the details ... lots of grave stones, a fence, no church... aha! We were, basically,
traveling along the Western Front and the flags were over "... some corner of a foreign
field. That is for ever England..."

Third, I'd (unfortunately) point out that large-scale death-and-destruction is
quite old ... the third Punic war and the siege of Carthage come to mind. The
results were not unlike a nuclear bomb going off on the city ... it just took longer.

Frank

[oldtiffie]

For an enlightening read regarding the Crusades and Saladin and the crimes committed and blood let all in the name of religion/s read up on the several religious Crusades and the sins they committed in the nmae of religion .

Its a good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=history+of+the+crusades&revid=1812352078

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=deaths+in+the+crusades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sins+of+the+crusaders

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=saladin

[oldtiffie]

The title of this thread is: Lest we forget 100 years later...

Which in the main (where it sticks to topic) refers mainly to World War 1 (WW1) 1914>1918 - 100 years ago.

But a further 100 years back (to 1818) - 200 years ago was the Battle of Waterloo.

Its well worth a read as it points out that large scale war and losses did not just occur 100 years ago but 200 years ago as well.

(There were many others similar a lot further back than 200 years as well).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waterloo

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=battle+of+waterloo+deaths

[Alistair Hosie]

Oh I do believe in self defence but chronic attacks killing innocent women Men and sadly children followed by torture as we have seen recently is quite another dare I say the start of a very indecent slippery slope.Shameful IMHO.Some seem to think that this inhuman behaviour like Rumsfeld and co,is perfectly acceptable,until their own sons and also daughters become victims.There are many here who feel very uncomfortable about this low life behaviour,but I think they are afraid to speak out for fear of intolerant people who love and live to insult decent thinking men and women who make up the majority by far , in the USA and Europe inc Britain. Alistair

[loose nut]

Not wanting to go to war is one thing, avoiding it is a completely different matter. Complete pacifism is utterly dangerous. After wars there is usually a cry of "beat the swords into plowshares". It goes way back, thousand of years and usually the result of a long war with lots of death and destruction.

But there is also another saying, "he who beats his sword into a plowshare will plow the fields of those that don't". The best and unfortunately the only option is to maintain a readiness to fight and the other guys may see that it will cost to much to attack.

To paraphrase Teddy R, "WALK SOFTLY AND KEEP THE BOMBERS ON 20 MINUTES NOTICE TO GO".

[Alistair Hosie]

Not sure which is more annoying, arm-chair generals or arm-chair pacifists.
Gary

Answer of course arm chair generals. be not confused,most people will agree that pacifism is the only way out of this mess. But along with reducing our going to war for a host of wrong reasons, tell me one war where there was a happy outcome? Of course we must defend ourselves from attack that goes almost without saying. I have witnessed especially recently elderly gentlemen who were involved in those wars. They still cry openly when the talk of their long and deeply negatively affected memories,surely that is a stark reminder of the pain they have carried with them all these painful years .Alistair

[loose nut]

Just more fun and games, Tiffie.

[oldtiffie]

This thread was started with a topic addressing the huge losses of human life in WW1 - 100 years ago - which was bad enough in many ways.

But before WW1 (1914 - 1918) had even finished the 1918 Influenza pandemic broke out and its killing rate exceeded or bettered (?) that of WW1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=influenza+pandemic+1918

The recent "Ebola" virus was seemingly a candidate as a pandemic if it had "got away" (world wide) too.

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ebola+virus

There are and have been and will be many others for a whole lot of reasons.

We have had several out-breaks of Equine virus here which is pretty well endemic in parts of Australia.

https://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=equine+virus&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4IRFC_enAU360AU360&q=equine+viral+arteritis+australia+&gs_l=hp..2.0j0i10l3j0.0.0.0.24809...........0.rU69aRBivks#hl=en-GB&q=equine+infectious+anaemia+Australia

Viral transmissions from bats to humans is a problem in parts of Australia too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_bat_lyssavirus

https://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=equine+virus&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4IRFC_enAU360AU360&q=equine+viral+arteritis+australia+&gs_l=hp..2.0j0i10l3j0.0.0.0.24809...........0.rU69aRBivks#hl=en-GB&q=human+infections+from+bats

We have had (and still do?) have periodic outbreaks of polio here too - often in the populations of islands to our near north.

https://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=equine+virus&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4IRFC_enAU360AU360&q=equine+viral+arteritis+australia+&gs_l=hp..2.0j0i10l3j0.0.0.0.24809...........0.rU69aRBivks#hl=en-AU&q=polio+Australia

So disease has the potential to "trim" a rising world or country population.

These are in addition to "war-caused" catastrophic deaths.

[oldtiffie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=planet+earth+human+population+in+50+years

[wierdscience]

Are you taking about the last 50 or the next 50 because in the last 50 years the population TRIPLED and it is still going. Been there, watched it happen.

The next fifty,must remember the whole world experienced the post war baby boom,not just the western world.The boomers are all getting very much older and are just starting to begin dying off.That we aren't replacing ourselves means the population will peak and begin dropping fairly soon.

If you check out the link and look at the lowest birth rate countries there are some surprising things fixing to happen.

[Alistair Hosie]

I still think if we are honest and fair! it must be obvious .(even to the meanest intelligence,) that very few benefit, and do so massively during wars. Some people have and continue to live the very handsomely ,(greedily indeed) making the kind of money we ordinary ordinary hard working morally decent minded people could not imagine. Usually these people's without any sense of conscience's own children are never sent to fight or indeed themselves .
surely if we rearranged or forced our future leaders to listen to the people(they seldom ever do),then the kind of expenditure we spend ,(often cripplingly so and almost leave our institutions dare I say countries, bankrupt or in financial dire straights for many years,)on doing,and maintaining some forms of altruistic and correct future policies,especially to our own poor.We would all live in a much fairer and better world.Surely we all want this even if some are afraid to say so feeling it unpatriotic etc .We as I have repeated many times begged Blair or B-liar millions took to the streets to protest.But the mad bastard ,and his cohorts,had his mind made up and he said so .I watched a programme on tv at the time ,when he was told my many very knowledgeable people professors etc that we would leave the Iraqi's (post invasion)in a much worse state than they were in at the time (under Sadam) Strangely to the liar they were right and he was wrong,as he was over the whole fiasco.I know just before the war he was given a mortgage for one million pounds and many asked how he could afford the repayments on his prime ministers salary.They needn't have worried his is since IRAQ a multi millionaire with a fortune well over a hundred million plus.The man told us all the lies he could to go to war.All of the expert advise was swept over to result in the sorry bloody mess we are in today.Whereas the USA and Britain were seen as the good people they now after IRAQ and torture who would have thought we would end up resorting to these sad ,sad tactics.If anyone had suggested to me we would do this a number of years ago I would have thought them delusional.And your leader mr Bush has vanished from the political landscape literally overnight a much wealthier repeat much wealthier man than he could ever wish as did his cohorts also. Sorry ONCE AGAIN for my rant on these evil people.Alistair

[loose nut]

Are you taking about the last 50 or the next 50 because in the last 50 years the population TRIPLED and it is still going. Been there, watched it happen.

[wierdscience]

I don't know about facts and figures but I can remember when the pop. hit 2.5 Billion and now its almost 7.5B. That's only 50 years give or take and the planet can't handle it. Well the planet will survive but living on it will be tough, for us and any animals that are left.

The population will not double in 50 years,not even close.Look at the birthrates,in the developed world anything less than 2.5 and the population isn't being replaced.Much of the western world is old and dying off rapidly.The third world is still cranking them out,but as they industrialize their birth rates will fall as well.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

[loose nut]

I don't know about facts and figures but I can remember when the pop. hit 2.5 Billion and now its almost 7.5B. That's only 50 years give or take and the planet can't handle it. Well the planet will survive but living on it will be tough, for us and any animals that are left.