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  • Customers and their projects

    I have had a request from a potential long term customer to make a short adaptor shaft so that he can join two transmissions together , this idea is not new as quite a few heavy truck makers offered "joey boxes" in heavy units.

    But when this customer approached other shops he was told that it cant be done as the boxes will fail .

    Have we reached the point of people not wanting to think outside of the normal run of the mill parts ?

    What is so difficult about machining a few splines on a shaft 3" in diameter about 16" long and fitting two bearings to reduce the chance of vibration ?

    Has anyone here " been there done that" ?

    Michael

  • #2
    Money. It can be done no doubt. But a job shop might not be able to make money. Its a simple op, if you have the tooling to do it. Splines are not a big money maker in a job shop that does not do splines offten. JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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    • #3
      Sounds like a good opportunity for you. If the other shops say it can't be done, but you can do it you will be viewed as more competent than the others, therefore more likely to turn out good work.

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      • #4
        "Skip Jacks" are what they are called in the woods of New England

        Any old engine gear box combination that outputs INTO another gear box with a 4WD transfer case.

        Pick up chassis work fine.

        With chains on the tires, these things go anywhere.

        A single bearing on a bell housing plate gets the job done.

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        • #5
          So a hose and some hose clamps won't hold up?
          Andy

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          • #6
            Hi Mike: I've combined this kind of set up several times. I mostly use a clutch plate for the front of one trans for the splining and weld, bolt to the cut down universal joint at the back of the other trans. Depending on how well you machine your fittings, you can get vibration free transmission hookup. Wayne.

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            • #7
              We made something like that for a runway marking machine!

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              • #8
                The old Power King Economy tractors had two 3-speed gearboxes in series between the engine and the rear axle. It worked quite well.

                Any products mentioned in my posts have been endorsed by their manufacturer.

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                • #9
                  Friday tractors made local used this with Dodge/Chysler parts & slant 6 gas engines. Luv tractors used Model A or T I forget. Up north many homeade sno cats were made out of trucks & cars 2 trannys & homeade tracks.
                  "Let me recommend the best medicine in the
                  world: a long journey, at a mild season, through a pleasant
                  country, in easy stages."
                  ~ James Madison

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                  • #10
                    As Mike4 said many heavy truck manufacturers made two gearbox units. Here they were called "Brownies", I believe after the Brown Lipe Corporation that made many of the 2nd boxes. Euclid had them in their construction and mining trucks. I once saw a "standard" highway truck with a single axle rear end that was used to haul a heavy trencher, the truck was modified to accommodate a second transmission. The gear boxes were 5 speed main and a 3 speed "Brownie" in addition to a 2 speed differential. It was a real "powerhouse" on steep grades and rough terrain.

                    Ray

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                    • #11
                      If it were me I'd be sure I was carrying adequate insurance and discussing the project with my insurer in the matter of real and implied warranty to cover me and the client if I took the job on.

                      Insurance may be seen as a PITA but its something you pay for hoping to never need to use it to cover any costs awarded against you.

                      Its not so much a matter of what insurance costs you if all goes to plan but rather what if might cost you if you are not covered for insurance.

                      Some of the "hairy chested" and "gung ho" types send a shiver up and down my spine when either discussing or under-taking work at all let alone for me (it doesn't and won't happen).

                      I'd much rather use a competent and qualified - and insured - professional Mechanical Engineer advise on the feasibility of the job or out-come required and rely on his mandatory (AU$1 million - minimum) professional indemnity insurance.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mike4 View Post
                        I have had a request from a potential long term customer to make a short adaptor shaft so that he can join two transmissions together , this idea is not new as quite a few heavy truck makers offered "joey boxes" in heavy units.

                        But when this customer approached other shops he was told that it cant be done as the boxes will fail .
                        Perhaps they understood the physics of coupling one transmission into an other. Increased mechanical advantage / torque of the first box, becoming the input torque into the second box. Why on earth would you worry about that. But lets not worry about engineered principles. Its only a 16" long shaft with two bearings right. That should work just fine Mickey.

                        18 speed Eaton is some thing like 14.4:1 in first gear. Good luck sticking a second transmission behind that. It only sees 14 times more torque than the engine. Your second box should put up with that.

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                        • #13
                          Tiffie,
                          Its standard practice to carry insurance , eg Professional liability $20 million , Public liability also $20 million.

                          Machtool ,

                          You seen to get off bagging me , I have replaced the output shaft in a 1985 Mack Superliner with a factory 12 speed , and put a five speed behind it , all driving hub reduction diffs .

                          Its still on the road taking it easy now as its been derated to 140 tonne from the previous rating , the reason for the output shaft failure was the last process had left a square edge on a groove instead of the radius which would have prevented cracking under load.

                          I dont really care what pleasure you take in making derogatory statements about me when I post , as all it does is make me more determined to continue to work and make repairs and modifications for customers .

                          And that dozer , it was a grey import , something that I did not know at the time , and the people who imported it are ducking for cover .

                          Not my problem anymore , however you seem to have an axe to grind , what have i done to you to get this sort of treatment apart from the fact that I live in Queensland and you live in Victoria??????

                          Michael

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                          • #14
                            IIRC, on my PK with the 14HP Kohler I had in the '70s, putting both transmissions in low gave me a top speed of about 10 feet/hr with about 75,000 foot-pounds of torque. The bull gears helped a bit.
                            Any products mentioned in my posts have been endorsed by their manufacturer.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rock_breaker View Post
                              As Mike4 said many heavy truck manufacturers made two gearbox units. Here they were called "Brownies", I believe after the Brown Lipe Corporation that made many of the 2nd boxes. Euclid had them in their construction and mining trucks. I once saw a "standard" highway truck with a single axle rear end that was used to haul a heavy trencher, the truck was modified to accommodate a second transmission. The gear boxes were 5 speed main and a 3 speed "Brownie" in addition to a 2 speed differential. It was a real "powerhouse" on steep grades and rough terrain.

                              Ray
                              Yes this is correct, I have only ever heard them referred to as a Brownie (due to the Brown-Lipe association) but I now realize this is strictly a regional nomenclature given to the second axillary transmission.

                              I've been fortunate enough to have put a lot of miles behind the twin stick 5+4 transmissions and the less common Spicer 16 speed. This was basically two 4-speed transmissions bolted together where one manually shifted the main transmission while using an air shift for the second one. Being able to drive those got me several interesting jobs due to the fact not many knew how to operate them.
                              Axillary transmissions are still used quite often today in the heavy haul sector.

                              I'd like to hear how the "joey boxes" name came about, something to do with a joey in a pouch perhaps?

                              Getting back to the coupling of two transmission together, the splined slip yoke would be the easy part due to those components being readily available. What did you have in mind for adding the input side yoke to the second transmission? Also I don't think you made mention of what kind of transmissions this project entails, automotive, heavy truck?

                              As a point of reference below is a photo of a heavy truck 4-speed Spicer axillary transmission that I am familiar with. I believe Eaton now makes a 2-speed twin counter shaft axillary transmission to cope with increased torque loads.

                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

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