Wheel Bolts

[Ian B]

I'm about to remove & refit the alloy wheels on my car. Opinions as to whether or not the wheel bolts should have their threads and / or seating cones greased (and if so, with what) seem to vary.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Ian

[kendall]

That's a can of worms.

I always make sure the studs are clean with no rust (wire brush) then use a small amount of anti seize on the threads, Not on the cones though.

[Joe Rogers]

GM service information specs clean and dry...
Farm implements can lube all they want. On the street, follow the directions. No fun dealing with a lost rim.
Joe

[Rosco-P]

Was a previous thread, stuck alloy rims, perhaps??

[Doozer]

In Buffalo, we paint anti-seize on everything.
Never had a lug nut seize or a rim come flying
off unintentionally.

-D

[vpt]

Just clean and dry is best. The most I will ever use on a lug is a drip of oil. The only studs I ever replaced had antisieze on them.


Do you torque your lugs/bolts with a torque wrench? What do you torque them to if you put antisieze on them?

[huntinguy]

In Buffalo, we paint anti-seize on everything.
Never had a lug nut seize or a rim come flying
off unintentionally.

-D

Does that mean you have had them "come flying off intentionally"?.

[spongerich]

Lots of road salt here in the northeast, so I use just the slightest dab of anti seize.. maybe a 2mm glob. I also put some on the hub since I had a couple wheels on my VW get stuck and it was a huge PITA to get them off.

[wierdscience]

I use graphite never sieze on the threads only.Never had a wheel come off or even a lug loosen.

[Willy]

GM service information specs clean and dry...
Farm implements can lube all they want. On the street, follow the directions. No fun dealing with a lost rim.
Joe

This is pretty well an industry standard, whether it is a GM wheel or one off of a Kenworth it does not matter.
The only lubricant allowed on fasteners is a drop or two of engine oil or something similar on the seats/flange juncture between nut and flange of the two piece style nuts used with hub piloted wheels and the majority of aluminum wheels as well.

Anti-seize on wheel mounting hardware was once an accepted practice but due to a number of high profile wheel-offs it is no longer an accepted practice. We learn from our mistakes.
I don't really care that anyone has been doing this without incident for 80 years, you are doing this against the advice of the entire industry so you're not arguing with me but with them.

As far as the issue of galvanic corrosion between the dissimilar metals interface of an alloy wheel and it's steel or iron mating surface, yes this can be an issue as wheels can stick quite tenaciously after long term exposure to the elements. I know on commercial rigs this issue is usually addressed with the use of a high temperature nylon spacer/gasket sandwiched between the wheel and it's mate.
On non-commercial applications a light coating of anti-seize on the hub surface is usually sufficient.

The below quote from a comprehensive pdf guide to installing aluminum wheels from Toyota.

To avoid corrosion that may
cause an alloy wheel to “stick” to a
steel or iron hub, apply a very thin
coating of an anti-seize paste to the
hub face where the wheel makes
contact.Don’t apply too much, as
any excess can sling out as a result
of centrifugal force and can con-
taminate the wheel face or brake
surfaces.A thin coating of this com-
pound will make it easy to remove
the wheels in the future, preventing
electrolysis (corrosive reaction
between aluminum and steel).Don’t
apply lubricant to fastener threads,
since fastener torque specification
values are based on the use of clean,
dry threads. By lubricating the
threads with a slippery substance,
inaccurate (usually too high) torque
values may be obtained.

[CarlByrns]

In Buffalo, we paint anti-seize on everything.
Never had a lug nut seize or a rim come flying
off unintentionally.

-D

In Syracuse (which gets even more snow on average) we don't apply non-recommended goop to wheel nuts and broken studs/seized lug nuts are very rare these days.
The sure-fire way to keep wheel studs and nuts from rusting solid is to rotate the tires at the recommended time/mileage, which works out to at least once a year for most drivers.

[A.K. Boomer]

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/66670-OT-Stuck-on-Alloy-Wheels/page4?highlight=anti-seize

there's all different levels of "dry lugs" and ratings that come from factory bolts with a thin layer of lube on them that are considered "dry" are a far cry from ones that have been exposed to the elements for years and "squeak" when you just turn them by hand,,,

Industry standards without common sense will get you or someone else killed,,,
Industry standards are a loose (no pun intended) guideline to go by but not to be taken "literally" without common sense thought,,,

totally dry studs - (beyond industry standards) ALWAYS create the worst situation with a wheel lug, LESS cinch torque,,,
more bind torque... therefore even when using a torque wrench you are creating a potentially hazardous situation,,,

slight over-torque is not a problem --- therefore when leaning to the side of safety and if a lug is totally dry - put a small swipe of anti seize compound on it, you will never surpass the lugs rating in doing this, but if you do not you will absolutely not just run the risk of lower cinch up value's --- you are totally guarantee'd it,,,

Just another area where those who go strictly by the book are a step behind in the evolutionary process of proper maintenance - by all means at least make an attempt to compensate - and by all means if you do error slightly in this area error to the side of safety - which means slightly tighter - because if corrosion is getting to your lugs - there's also a thin layer between wheels and drums/rotors and also rotors/drums and hubs,,, and once disturbed and then it resettles you will be left with even lower cinch torque,,, not exactly what you would want when starting with already low torque to begin with,,,

therefore --- if industry standards are not compensating for all these factors --- then industry standards are wrong,,, plain and simple....

[Ian B]

I guess it varies from make to make. Volkswagen / Audi make a "wheel assembly" paste, Optimol TA, part number G 052 109 A2 which their workshop manuals recommends to be applied to the threads of wheel bolts. Presumably their recommended torque setting of 120Nm takes this into account.

There's a school of thought that recommends against any form of lubricant, anti seize etc on the face between the hub and wheel. The idea of keeping this dry is to cause torque to be transmitted via the friction of this face (and therefore not by putting the wheel bolts in shear); lubricating this face would reduce the friction and then transmit the load to the bolts.

Ian