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OT: has anyone had drain pipes "lined" to fix damage or tree root problems?

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  • OT: has anyone had drain pipes "lined" to fix damage or tree root problems?

    There are two common ways, lining, and "bursting". Lining is an epoxy and fiberglas tube type liner installed usually by blowing in the inside out tube and curing in place. Pipe bursting is expanding (breaking) the existing pipe and dragging in a replacement tube.

    I finally have had it with tree roots, plus a damaged drain line as a result of cabling and these sound like a much better alternative to digging up the basement and yard to replace the pipes entirely. The yard has a lot of plantings, and an expensive new sidewalk in the way. There are also two big trees that are directly in the way of any trenching, totally blocking it. They are probably causing the root problem, and would prevent trenching if done the usual way, but I don't want to cut them down, they give good summer shade to the house and yard.

    The basement has my personal shop is in it, and I can't see doing the disassembly and moving job it would be to get stuff out of the way. Naturally, the pipes go directly under the room where the machines are, and which they would have to be partly disassembled to come out of.

    Digging up the basement we did have done once, and it seems to be around $100 per foot, double that for the first section. We only needed one section then, and that was already a huge hassle, plus getting a permanently rough section of the floor, which is otherwise smooth and finished, as a "bonus". Dust, dirt, moving machines, and a fairly long "outage" of the drains...... The lining folks claim a less than one day job, digging might take several.

    I'd like to know whether you had good results if you had it done.

    Also, I'd like to know your reasons for opting for digging if you had a choice of methods.

    If you got bids both ways, was cost comparable? Which was more expensive if they were different?
    Last edited by J Tiers; 10-03-2015, 12:38 AM.
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  • #2
    Boy you have a very similar situation that my bro just went through with one of his rentals

    I had not ever heard of "pipe bursting" though --- that sounds sketchy if something caved and you were not able to get the other pipe in...

    anyways, he owns a nice ditchwitch trencher so you can guess the way he went about it - but just took care of it half length to where the "routine rod out trouble" was always occurring, so far so good...

    Im sure you've already been through the "burn" the tree roots ends after rodding out by adding "root be gone" chemicals and then giving one flush and letting things sit for awhile? not supposed to grow back for along time... mixed results...

    what a hassle - thank god for plastic, im good to the alley...

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    • #3
      Consider locating the pipe outside of the house, trenching around the trees to the other end of the pipe and just installing a new pipe in that section that roots are attacking?

      Much less to dig up as your only replacing part of the pipe, a new pipe in the damaged section of any type you desire.. and it will be much further from the tree roots.
      Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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      • #4
        Part of my town is currently lining some of our city sewer lines. They only lasted a hundred years or so. The lining was started two years ago (phase 1) and the areas done seem to be working well.

        Obviously I can't help you with cost, but I would think that the cost of lining, unless completely out of line would be worth the tremendous work/hassle you're describing cutting up the floor/yard would be.

        Good luck.


        Cat

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        • #5
          I've had a combination of bursting and lining done on two houses.

          The system was burst from the house connection out to parking strip. They made a hole at each end for the bursting. From the hole at the parking strip they lined the section out to the city main in the street.

          The most recent of my two sewer repairs was 6 years ago. The sewer exits the house in the back, swings around the corner of the house to the side yard then 75 feet straight to the parking strip. That needed three holes, the extra one where it went around the corner of the house. $24,000 for the complete job which included a bit of cement work to replace walk ways at the rear of house and corner. About 2 days time to complete. We were without sewer usage maybe half a day.

          In both of our cases digging to lay new pipe was not practical because of trees and terrain. If it had been possible to dig out to the parking strip that would have been lees expensive than bursting (rent an excavator and do it myself). From the parking strip to the city main has to be lined since the city charges exorbitant fees to dig up their street.

          As my neighbor says "life isn't worth living without a working sewer system".

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          • #6
            I dont think pvc pipe can be replaced using the mandrel method and pulling a new pipe through.What are pipes made of in the States?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Catshooter View Post
              Part of my town is currently lining some of our city sewer lines. They only lasted a hundred years or so. The lining was started two years ago (phase 1) and the areas done seem to be working well.

              Obviously I can't help you with cost, but I would think that the cost of lining, unless completely out of line would be worth the tremendous work/hassle you're describing cutting up the floor/yard would be.

              Good luck.


              Cat
              They lined our pipes right up to the houses around 5 years ago now here. No problems yet but I do think about the liner and what happens when I pour coolant and stuff down the toilet.
              Andy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by plunger View Post
                I dont think pvc pipe can be replaced using the mandrel method and pulling a new pipe through.What are pipes made of in the States?
                Pipes here are PVC now. A hundred years ago, they were cast iron inside and under the house, then clay tile from the house to the main sewer. We have the cast iron, etc, as the house is nearly that old.

                As for bursting being sketchy, just as plunger says, a mandrel is pulled through, with the new pipe right behind it, so there is no problem with collapse. It only needs the ability to get a cable through.

                Really shouldn't even need that. The gas company etc replace pipes by digging a hole in the street, and putting in a powered head that pounds its way through the soil dragging the pipe up to the house. They don't care about the old pipe at all.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by vpt View Post
                  They lined our pipes right up to the houses around 5 years ago now here. No problems yet but I do think about the liner and what happens when I pour coolant and stuff down the toilet.
                  What happens to the "good" bacteria at the wastewater plant when your pour coolant, a.k.a. toxic waste down the toilet?

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                  • #10
                    A couple years ago they relined the city pipes in my wife's grand mother's neighborhood, took them just over half a day to get the whole block done. They went upstream and stated that as soon as they moved all the equipment past the house, it was ready to use.

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                    • #11
                      I did several houses in Texas. I used an air spade to dig out the old pipe. Roots are no problem. Access is no problem. It works really good when you have to go under a sidewalk or beside a house. Especially if you don't want to destroy everything the way you would with a trencher or excavator. Existing wires, gas lines, pipes etc. are no problem. The biggest drawback will be to contain the dust and dirt. We just used 4x8 plywood to shield things.

                      There is no water used so it is not very abrasive meaning if you don't want to damage good roots you don't have too. It is just air at around 150psi and a lot of CFM. A small 185cfm tow-able compressor works fine. No need to haul in big compressors. You don't even have to use an official air spade. You can easily build one yourself.
                      How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DR View Post
                        $24,000 for the complete job which included a bit of cement work to replace walk ways at the rear of house and corner.
                        ouch --- im glad Iv had the foresight to set myself up in life to be extremely poor,

                        I would hand dig it before something like that... and reap the bennies of better physical health afterwards...

                        that's half of what some people are paying for houses around these parts - just too flush a turd? no way... ouch

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by plunger View Post
                          I dont think pvc pipe can be replaced using the mandrel method and pulling a new pipe through.What are pipes made of in the States?
                          You're probably right about pvc not being "burstable". Our old sewers are usually a combination of clay and cement. The cement being a repair of the older clay in most cases.

                          Something I found interesting about getting bids for sewer repair, the salesmen all have the same pitch. They video your sewer and show you potential failure points Warning that it "could" fail at any time creating an expensive emergency repair situation. If that doesn't close the deal they tell the story about the poor widow who had the catastrophic sewer failure and lost her home because of the expense.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                            ouch --- im glad Iv had the foresight to set myself up in life to be extremely poor,

                            I would hand dig it before something like that... and reap the bennies of better physical health afterwards...

                            that's half of what some people are paying for houses around these parts - just too flush a turd? no way... ouch

                            It seems most realtors in our area of older homes are requiring buyers to get a sewer inspection. Unless the sewer has been replaced recently it becomes a negotiating point on price.

                            $20K+ for a sewer replacement is big money. Considering that a good many homes in "better" areas in west coast cities sell close to a million bucks $20K isn't a deal killer.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Black_Moons View Post
                              Consider locating the pipe outside of the house, trenching around the trees to the other end of the pipe and just installing a new pipe in that section that roots are attacking?

                              Much less to dig up as your only replacing part of the pipe, a new pipe in the damaged section of any type you desire.. and it will be much further from the tree roots.
                              Well, the roots are all along the pipe, we had the video when the folks cabling out the line got stuck. Impressive, they were. About 5 places, and that is with it being cabled about every year. There is at least one smallish hole that the cabling folks put in the (almost hundred year old) cast iron, besides the ones the roots get into. They could not get all the roots.

                              I'm DONE with fiddling, needs to get fixed.

                              The trees that are over the pipe are also located such that if they avoid the trees, they destroy several grand of decorative sidewalk to the house.... OR they destroy the concrete driveway. Bad choices every way. They have been an issue several times, but it now seems they are likely not the immediate problem.

                              The trees that are probably causing the main current problem are not ours, though, they are in the neighbor's yard across the driveway. Big trees, long roots, closer to us than the neighbor's pipes and house.

                              Would NOT like 24 grand, must have been something special there, it seems to run about $120 per foot either way, here, dig or line. 24grand would be 200feet of line....... We don't have close to that.

                              Good replies...thank you. Keep 'em coming, it's helpful. We are not committed yet, but I am getting bids now.
                              Last edited by J Tiers; 10-03-2015, 11:52 AM.
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

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