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Grizzly 7x12 vs. Grizzly 7x14

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  • #16
    Back in the olden days, pre-WW2 over in merry ol' England (Scotland, Wales too) small lathes about the same size as the 7" ones where all that most Model Engineers/amateurs could afford. Many where absolute crap but cheap, frequently less then 5#'s ($25) and a lot of of good work was turned out on them. Since milling machines just where not available to guys like us in those days some enterprising gents would buy a second lathe, put a vertical milling slide on it and bolt it vertically onto a wall. Instance vertical mill. I have know doubt that these small Chinese made lathes are of better quality than what was available back then to those guys and you can now get a matching colour coordinated mill to go with it.
    The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

    Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

    Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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    • #17
      I have a few Sieg machined and enjoy them. If it were my money I'd buy one of the brushless DC models. Micromark and Littlemachineshop both sell them. I got mine on Craigslist. It was a few years old, but had never been assembled. Quite a deal.
      You can find them regularly like that. If you have trouble with it, wait for harbor freight's 20% coupon and grab one from them.

      Sent from my SM-G900M using Tapatalk

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      • #18
        Limited physical space for a lathe as you say.....join a Make or Hacker space and use their machines and tooling for your projects. A cheap(er) way to see if a small lathe will suit your needs or frustrate the sh!t out of you with it's inherent limitations.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mike Burch View Post
          The rabid xenophobia so often exhibited on this forum is tiresome, and I've had a gutsful of it. Patriotism is one thing, but denigrating the rest of the world just because it isn't America is both sick and insulting.
          I'm a happy, proud and patriotic American and I couldn't agree with you more!

          Lyndon

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lwalker View Post
            I'm a happy, proud and patriotic American and I couldn't agree with you more!

            Lyndon
            My take on it is this: I do not want to give my money to anyone who treats their workers badly. If I do not find the work and benefits fair, then I do not want to spend my money there. Wal-mart does not get any of my money, for example.
            You can generally assume manufacturing conditions in the US are fair, but they aren't always.
            It's my understanding that China as a state goes out of its way to deflate its currency to keep trade in their favor. In doing so they sacrifice of the quality of life of their own people. This makes it difficult for me to morally hand any company in China any of my money.
            Even so, I've seen some Chinese companies who value their employees and take a very prideful approach to their products and customer service. I'm not saying Sieg is one of those, but they seem better than others.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Richard P Wilson View Post
              Have you actually used one, or are you just repeating what you have heard? I had a generic 7x12 here in the UK and it would happily take cuts of 50 thou off EN1A steel. .

              +1

              People who say that the small lathes are worthless are either repeating hearsay, making things up to justify their purchase of a big lathe or are lacking the skills needed to correctly adjust a lathe so that it works well.

              I have used a variety of lathes, the largest being 12x36 and 16 x something at a shared resources space (techshop). I own a 9x20 and a 7x12. While I do like the bigger work envelope of the bigger lathes, they don't do much better than the small ones when working on smaller pieces. The smaller machines with variable speed are actually faster to use for some operations. It's not hard to get a good finish, and they cut threads as well as their big brothers.

              When space and power are limited, the 7x10, 7x12 and 7x14 lathes can be a good choice. The chucks, face-plates, and change gears can be stored in a toolbox and stored under a craft table.

              Dan
              At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

              Location: SF East Bay.

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              • #22
                The advice given above to go for one with a brushless motor is very sound, too. I believe that they have much more torque than the older pulse-width-modulated brush type, especially at the slow speeds required for thread cutting.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mike Burch View Post
                  The rabid xenophobia so often exhibited on this forum is tiresome, and I've had a gutsful of it. Patriotism is one thing, but denigrating the rest of the world just because it isn't America is both sick and insulting.
                  .
                  Patriotism is being brainwashed into doing things you'd never in million years do of your own volition. Xenophobia otoh is an irrational fear of things foreign, its use is bothersome as its so often used incorrectly and as an insult.

                  Schaublin, DSG, Okuma Mori Seike, Graziano etc are all foreign lathes. Unless you really think these people would turn one down because they're foreign, how is the charge of xenophobia fair? I don't really care what lathe someone uses, and maybe some should more sensitive, but I hardly think its xenophobia
                  Last edited by Mcgyver; 10-26-2015, 06:25 PM.
                  in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Richard P Wilson View Post
                    Have you actually used one, or are you just repeating what you have heard? I had a generic 7x12 here in the UK and it would happily take cuts of 50 thou off EN1A steel. I
                    I actually owned a lathe similar to Grizzly 7 x 12, but with smaller spindle bearings. That lathe would chatter like crazy on any steel work unless it was supported by a tailstock. Despite that I learned how to live within its limitations and made quite a few interesting projects with its help.
                    Now I have a Grizzly 12 x 36 lathe, which is a much bigger machine with bigger and way more rigid spindle bearings. I estimate the distance from the front bearing to the chuck laws on Grizzly 7 x 12 at around 100-110 mm. The spindle diameter under the front bearing is 30 mm. Imagine chucking a 30 mm steel bar on a 12 x 36 lathe and taking a .050" deep cut 100 mm away from the jaws. I would think twice about doing that without tailstock support... This example is just to illustrate the importance of the setup rigidity.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mike Burch View Post
                      I have had a Sieg C3 (i.e., a 7 x 14) for many years, and I am constantly amazed at what I can do on it. Of course it has its limitations of size and horsepower, but it's what I can afford and have room for.
                      As for the forty thou carriage advance per spindle rev stated above, sorry Mikey, but that's just crap. The Imperial leadscrew at 16TPI with the standard supplied 20/80+20/80 gear reduction gives you 3.9 thou carriage advance per spindle rev, not 40.
                      I am not familiar with Sieg C3 and we are talking about Grizzly 7 x 12 or 7 x 14 here. Grizzly has the manuals for most of their machines available for a free download. So my statement came directly from Grizzly manual. I apologize for quoting an incorrect information. You are right, the feed rate should be 0.0039 in/rev. Grizzly has pretty good machine manuals (compared to some other machines), but accuracy is not one of their virtues.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mikey553 View Post
                        I actually owned a lathe similar to Grizzly 7 x 12, but with smaller spindle bearings. That lathe would chatter like crazy on any steel work unless it was supported by a tailstock. Despite that I learned how to live within its limitations and made quite a few interesting projects with its help.
                        Now I have a Grizzly 12 x 36 lathe, which is a much bigger machine with bigger and way more rigid spindle bearings. I estimate the distance from the front bearing to the chuck laws on Grizzly 7 x 12 at around 100-110 mm. The spindle diameter under the front bearing is 30 mm. Imagine chucking a 30 mm steel bar on a 12 x 36 lathe and taking a .050" deep cut 100 mm away from the jaws. I would think twice about doing that without tailstock support... This example is just to illustrate the importance of the setup rigidity.
                        Who said anything about 50 thou cut 100mm away from jaws with no tailstock support? You said it would only take a few thou cut, I said it would do much better than that, but I made the assumption that it would be being used sensibly. With the normal chuck on a 7x12 or 7x14, the work is only being gripped on the end 12mm or so. Yes mine would happily cut steel without tailstock support, but you need to be thoughtful regarding when to bring the tailstock in. It isn't a DSG after all.
                        'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mikey553 View Post
                          I am not familiar with Sieg C3 and we are talking about Grizzly 7 x 12 or 7 x 14 here.
                          They are one and the same. Sieg is the manufacturer. They are sold by Harbor freight, Grizzly, MicroMark, Littlemachineshop, and a bunch of others.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mike Burch View Post
                            I have had a Sieg C3 (i.e., a 7 x 14) for many years, and I am constantly amazed at what I can do on it. Of course it has its limitations of size and horsepower, but it's what I can afford and have room for.
                            As for the forty thou carriage advance per spindle rev stated above, sorry Mikey, but that's just crap. The Imperial leadscrew at 16TPI with the standard supplied 20/80+20/80 gear reduction gives you 3.9 thou carriage advance per spindle rev, not 40.
                            The rabid xenophobia so often exhibited on this forum is tiresome, and I've had a gutsful of it. Patriotism is one thing, but denigrating the rest of the world just because it isn't America is both sick and insulting.
                            So go ahead, my friend, and buy a 7 x 14 (the 7 x 12 will prove too short once you have fitted a four-jaw chuck on a backing plate at one end and a tailstock chuck and 1/2" drill at the other).
                            I agree, went through the same BS when I purchased my Little Machine shop Sieg C3, it surprised the $rap out of me how well made it was. I wanted to downsize from a Emco Super 11 to something I could move if I had to. The C3 does everything (small) I need to do.
                            Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician - Fine Line Automation CNC 4x4 Router

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by wmgeorge View Post
                              I agree, went through the same BS when I purchased my Little Machine shop Sieg C3, it surprised the $rap out of me how well made it was. I wanted to downsize from a Emco Super 11 to something I could move if I had to. The C3 does everything (small) I need to do.
                              Hah, I just move an EMCO Super 11 into my basement last night. Wasn't too bad with two old guys and a hand cart. Used a come-along to get the machine off and back onto the cabinet. I will be getting one of these little 7x14 lathes one of these days. It will take up less space than my Atlas 6x18 and would be a little easier to move around as it has an integral motor. But, I think the EMCO will be going wherever I retire to as well.

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                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=gzig5;1010613]It will take up less space than my Atlas 6x18 and would be a little easier to move around as it has an integral motor./QUOTE]

                                Let me know when you want to get rid of your Atlas 6x18. I was supposed to look at one Sunday afternoon but the seller backed out for some unknown reason.

                                Sorry to interrupt the thread.

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