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O.T. Suzuki 660 engine in Cushman truck

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  • O.T. Suzuki 660 engine in Cushman truck

    I have a Cushman Haulster truck in the shop that has a Suzuki 660 3-cylinder gas engine. This is a modern outfit with EFI, distributor-less electronic ignition, full computer control. The throttle body is operated by a complex cable setup that incorporates a belt-driven governor that I believe is just for overspeed protection, not speed control per se.

    Although I saw this thing run a couple or 3 years ago, it's been sitting since, I think outside. The problem is, I can't get it running now:

    Drained and replaced the gas, it's getting fuel at the injector rail. I'm pretty sure I'm smelling gas at the exhaust after cranking. (My nose isn't as good as it used to be!)

    It will fire now and then, sounding like it "wants to run". That is, all 3 cylinders sound like they're firing, but it won't "catch", almost like it needs choking or somesuch. I tried starting fluid in the air intake (filter element removed) and there seems to be no effect. Normally, if there's spark, it should run on the starting fluid.

    I've separated a couple of the wiring harness connectors, including the 2 on the ECU, and applied Corrosion-X, something I've had good luck with in the past.

    I have manuals, but they've not been of much help.

    Any ideas?

  • #2
    Maybe it needs new spark plugs or wires.
    Last edited by Toolguy; 12-22-2015, 08:38 PM.
    Kansas City area

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    • #3
      pull a plug and check for fuel - (c if its flooded) while you have the plug out check for spark,

      then move on to comprendo,,, then move on to cam timing, does it have a timing belt?

      all simply things takes about 3 to 5 minutes total - poe pholk comprendo test - just rotate with a ratchet by hand through all the cylinders...

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      • #4
        We had a tiny Suzuki Fronte GX Coupe with a rather highly strung 358cc petrol 3 cylinder 2 stroke engine. It was a lively little car but the engine had so little torque at idle speed that merely switching on the headlights would cause the increased alternator load to stall the engine!

        It also had the characteristic that even from new it would rarely start from cold unless the clutch was depressed presumably due to the drag of a cold gearbox.

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        • #5
          TG,
          No wires, it has coil packs that snap right onto the plugs. I started to remove a plug, and it felt like it was beginning to gall, so I retightened it.

          AK,
          It has compression, you can hear it when it's cranking. Again, it tries to run, almost like an old-timey engine: pump the gas pedal, then crank, it'll fire a few times, then quit.

          I disconnected the fuel line from the injector rail, put a container under it, and turned on the key. Fuel REALLY flows, but I don't know what the pressure is. The manual says it's supposed to be 42 PSI, so I think that's the next step.

          There's a resistor that adjusts the timing; from the manual:

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Ignition timing adjustment is performed by means of a register. The resistance is classified into a total of twelve types, and twelve stages of adjustment are possible.

          One end of the ignition timing adjustment register coupler
          is connected to the ”IAD” terminal connected to the
          5 V power supply via a pull–up resistor inside the ECM,
          and the other end is grounded at the ”E2” terminal.
          Depending upon the resistance of the register plugged
          into the register coupler, the ”IAD” terminal voltage of
          the ECM changes, and accordingly, the ECM determines
          which register has been plugged in, and performs
          fine adjustment of the ignition timing.
          When advancing the ignition timing, adjustment is performed
          by replacement with a register having higher
          resistance, and when delaying the ignition timing, by
          replacement with a register having lower resistance.
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          I've not yet found this resistor.

          A major suspicion is a bit of corrosion on an electrical connection someplace. I need to give the Corrosion-X treatment to all of the plugs.

          Comment


          • #6
            Snap a plug into a coilpack and see if it is firing. Just be sure to ground the plug body. Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jdunmyer View Post
              TG,
              I started to remove a plug, and it felt like it was beginning to gall, so I retightened it.
              try another - you need to at least get a read on it...

              good on the compression - and if it sounds normal and strong while cranking it means the valve timing is most likely good -- most likely that is...

              you can still test the spark with the coil pack as Mike has just mentioned...

              keep us posted, i'll check in once in awhile

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mike279 View Post
                Snap a plug into a coilpack and see if it is firing. Just be sure to ground the plug body. Mike
                This would be an easy step that I would take as well, that and checking to see that all mechanical bits are functioning, timing chain in phase, compression normal, etc. Pick the low hanging fruit first.

                I have to run now and won't be back until tomorrow sometime?
                I did find a couple of links to a couple of shop manuals that I believe both pertain to your engine so I'll leave the links here to the pdf files for them in the hopes that it will allow the members here like Mike279, A.K.Boomer, and some of the other diagnostic minds some more insight to what you are dealing with.

                If these aren't the correct links all bets are off.


                https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...jeWvu9Y3ZLnUmw


                https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...er_mvDe4YZV42w
                Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                Location: British Columbia

                Comment


                • #9
                  Check your compression. Check between 2 cylinders, if its more then 10 PSI off between cylinders, you may have a problem.

                  Pour a tablespoon of 2 stroke oil down the sparkplug hole, recheck compression, if it increases greatly and then falls off, you have a problem (Bad rings/cylinder)

                  If it increases greatly and does not fall off, Congrats you had a stuck ring and its now fixed :P

                  if its a 2 stroke it may very well not have any valves other then piston ports, so the ring/compression is the most important issue.
                  Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the manuals Willy gave are very in depth and well written --- no surprises here - just a modern standard belt driven 4 valves per cyl. OHC engine.

                    that being said it's still reliant on a plethora of sensors and a ECU for both it's fuel injection tasks and electronic ignition...

                    here's my biggest question to you right now, you gave some of the history of the unit, it ran fine 3 years ago - sat and now it does not, so when parked it did not have a problemo? or was it parked because it had a problemo?

                    if the answer is the first question you are more than likely dealing with a fuel related issue...

                    check to see if your fuel injection has a "dead end rail" - this means just a pressure fitting and then the injectors,

                    generally they have a pressure fitting on one end and then a pressure regulator on the other and a return line back to the tank with the injectors in the middle --- this system is not "stagnant"

                    but the dead end rail type is --- so even when sour gas in the tank is replaced it can take a long time to get it all out of the rack esp. just at crank demand...

                    Your test on the starting fluid should have bye-passed all this - BUT, the plugs could be so soured out by foul gas that will not ignite they will not produce spark,

                    that's why it's imperative to get a read on them - or at least two if one is stuck... keep us posted...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've ran into similar symptoms over the years. In many cases, it was caused by a nearly plugged exhaust system. Especially GM cars with the pellet type cat. converters. If the Cush was outside for several years, it's entirely possible that Wasps have built a nest in the muffler. The classic test is to unbolt the exhaust at the engine and see if it runs.

                      As for the sparkplugs, I've found that loosening the plug a half turn to lift it off its seat and putting a teaspoon of good penetrating oil in the plug hole works wonders. Wait overnight, or, even better a couple days for the oil to do it's job. Over the years I've come to prefer Kroil, but it can be hard to find around here. CRC has a product they claim is better than Kroil, but I've never tried it. This is also the best way to remove sparkplugs from the 3 valve Triton V-8's that were famous for breaking off.

                      Hope this helps, TC
                      I cut it off twice; it's still too short
                      Oregon, USA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As already suggested ... might be blocked exhaust.

                        I had a forklift recently that had been sitting outside for several years. Said to be a runner but would not run. Similar sounding issue to yours. Tried all the basics without luck. As I was cranking it it would (if say some starter fluid was applied) the cranking would slow down. Eventually retarded the ignition a bit and it started; HUGE fountain of water came out the exhaust.

                        Cheers,
                        Norman

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                        • #13
                          Something could have made a nest in the exhaust too, wasps, mice, all sorts of things. I have seen engines destroyed from mice making nests in cylinders.

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                          • #14
                            definitely along the lines of asking the question "what could have changed"

                            although unusual it does happen --- the sour gas however is about a given after 3 years,,, just simple dependable chemistry at work there....

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                              definitely along the lines of asking the question "what could have changed"

                              although unusual it does happen --- the sour gas however is about a given after 3 years,,, just simple dependable chemistry at work there....

                              You guys are all on the right track in my opinion.
                              Once the "what could have changed" question is answered is when you'll find the answer to why it won't start.

                              Long distance diagnostics is always hard due to not knowing all of the subtle little details that simplify the diagnostic process.
                              We do not know for example the condition of the engine and how it was running when parked. We don't know what if any storage precautions were taken when the vehicle was parked.
                              It appears that some of these details aren't known at present by the OP either, but he should find out as much of this history as possible in order to help lead him in the right direction.
                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                              Location: British Columbia

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