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  • Brazed Carbide Cutting Bits

    Can't seem to find Kennametal on Mcmaster-Carr or MSC Direct. Do NOT want Chinese organic fertilizer. Don't trust "made in USA" statement on Enco, McMaster, and MSC.

    Where can I find Kennametal, or, that failing, what is a trustworthy, non Chinese brand?

    The "Made in USA" bits fractured just as quickly as those made in PRC. I found a single Kennametal AR5 at my friendly industrial surplus house. Can't kill it. What a difference!!! And how it sharpens, when you use diamond!

    Please. Who sells these?
    What ever happened to reasoned discussion of the issues? Now, if you don't instantly and enthusiastically endorse the leftist view, you are labeled with some word ending in "ist", and told you are an agent of evil. Wasn't that how it was done in 1930's Russia and Germany?

  • #2
    I would call the company and ask them. That's what I usually do when all else fails.

    JL..............

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    • #3
      Do they still make them?

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      • #4
        I've had the same experience with the Enco "Made in USA" ones as the OP,and someone recently told me that it is a BRAND NAME, and they are actually made in China........wouldn't surprise me too much, will have to look at the pieces if I can find them and see if the country of origin is on them or not.
        Steve
        NRA Life Member

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        • #5
          Call McMaster-Carr and ask them where is made what you want they will tell you , many times you can ask for something and they'll get it for you.

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          • #6
            Why buy brazed carbide when you can buy an indexable tool for a few dollars more?

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            • #7
              And if you're cheap you can sharpen those too!

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              • #8
                EBay has some, not sure where else you may find them, from anyone, unless a local supplier has something sitting in a back room somewhere...you do get a few more hits with just "brazed carbide" but you gotta wade through them one by one

                I have never used them but I have used other items from Micro 100 and they do still list a good variety of brazed tooling though that must be changing as they do "warn" that once stock is depleted certain items (shapes) will be special order only. Be aware, their new catalog takes a long time to download, or at least it did for me.

                Edit: Cutting Tool Supply lists items from "American Carbide Tool" that include AR/AL in two Kennametal grades...Amazon shows a few more shapes from ACT but who knows? I mean is it old stock or something with a similar look and name stamped on...
                Last edited by RussZHC; 12-28-2015, 01:24 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KiddZimaHater View Post
                  Why buy brazed carbide when you can buy an indexable tool for a few dollars more?
                  Did you forget already what you said? They are a few dollars more.

                  For the OP.

                  Of course they also can have some positive rake to improve cutting, while the brazed is generally a neutral rake snowplow. You may consider that also. But then a broken brazed part can be resharpened, while the indexable may be done.

                  Of course, you must consider the secret material you are working with. And the secret shape it is, that may affect how your tooling happens to "fracture".

                  Or you could enlighten us with pictures. That could help. Maybe the problem is not all the poor quality cutters.
                  1601

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

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                  • #10
                    I have a few inserts that qualify as 'can't kill'. Every other one I've bought turns out to be a POS. I hate that we have these 'hardware store' tool places now- while there may be a few good things, they are basically full of junk.

                    Something that seems like a good question- with all the modern and expensive cnc machinery around now, it wouldn't pay to load up the tooling with junk inserts. What would the operators of these use for inserts that the average guy like me can't find?
                    I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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                    • #11
                      The same ones you CAN find... they just don't buy based on price. There's also a learning curve - the right grade, coating and insert for for the job. Yep... it's daunting for the average HSMer. I've been there and pretty much figured it out years ago.

                      I only buy quality name brand inserts, and they last and last. My "go to" lathe tool insert form is 33x WNMG, but I have the power and rigidity to drive it. 6 corners, strong in every direction. I also have positive rake versions that fit in the neg rake holder for finish work or fine cuts. Next - for more chip clearance and accessibility - DNMG and DPMG in 22x, 33x and 43x sizes. Many different T forms - some tiny for miniature boring bars. Mill - I get my carbide EM though a local machine shop - stunning performance.


                      I also have hundreds of inserts of every type (from auctions, machine shop surplus etc) for rough work or less critical applications. But if it's important ... I reach for the known brand/form/type.


                      And yes... I use HSS also, but life is too short to hog tough metals with it!
                      Last edited by lakeside53; 12-28-2015, 02:46 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Maybe......

                        I can get hard work done with some no name chinese brazed cutters that came from a tag sale in a toolbox. Cheapo they as they are,they work as well in 4140ph as inserts. So does everything else except HSS which doesn't last.
                        1601

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                          Maybe......

                          I can get hard work done with some no name chinese brazed cutters that came from a tag sale in a toolbox. Cheapo they as they are,they work as well in 4140ph as inserts. So does everything else except HSS which doesn't last.
                          Same, I just learned the hard way, they don't come presharpened and they are NOT for interrupted cuts unless you wanna start seeing sparks and turn your brazed carbide insert into a 1/16" nose radius in all axis :P

                          Sharpening them makes a HUGE difference. Most of them look as cast, or like they where sharpened with some 60 grit.

                          Other then that, Iv had surprisingly good luck with cheapo Chinese brazed carbide.
                          Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                          • #14
                            I have a lot ( hundred?) of 1980's brazed carbide, many (most?) with chip breakers ground into them. Unfortunately, little easy resharpening is possible with those. I'm slowly consuming or trading/giving them all away.

                            In my experience brazed types without chip breakers do not work well in 4140 - massive stringy razor-sharp swarf; PH is a little easier. Correct inserts and technique break the strings into short spiral or chips. On a lower power lathe it may not matter though - you won't break the swarf easily.
                            Last edited by lakeside53; 12-28-2015, 12:06 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KiddZimaHater View Post
                              Why buy brazed carbide when you can buy an indexable tool for a few dollars more?
                              1. Indexables, unless I'm missing something, are not SHARP. They muscle through the cut.

                              2. MOST indexables are coated with something that helps them muscle through. Attempting to sharpen destroys that.

                              3. MOST indexables have a cutting geometry that helps the cut and "breaks the chip", well, sometimes. My DMNG turning cutter doesn't, and it's by Kennametal.

                              4. Unless you buy really high end indexables, OR buy large (3xx and larger), they crumble. The 2xx size the beginning HSM buys are TRASH. Better to use HSS. Carbide NEEDS support, as, like concrete, it can stand pressure, but not torsion or bending. Brazing provides that.

                              I did my homework on grades, origin, and construction, and am going on Amazon.com with American Carbide Tool Carbide-Tipped Tool Bit for Straight Turning, Right Hand, K21 Grade, 0.375" Square Shank, AR 6 Size by American Carbide Tool Made in Ohio, using Kennametal carbide brazed to their shanks. Supposed to handle interrupted cuts. At $9 each, not a bad deal! Buying two to test. If they work out, I'm going to get more.

                              Material: O-1 annealed tool steel. D-2, S-7. Can't always provide a continuous surface for the cutter. The O-1 I get from Enco is randomly hard and soft, internally. A real "joy" to machine. The D-2 dulls cobalt quickly, and even carbide doesn't last. W-1 and S-7 are easier to machine. S-7 gets insanely hard and tough when treated. Working now on a set of jaws for a TdeG chuck, using S-7.
                              What ever happened to reasoned discussion of the issues? Now, if you don't instantly and enthusiastically endorse the leftist view, you are labeled with some word ending in "ist", and told you are an agent of evil. Wasn't that how it was done in 1930's Russia and Germany?

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