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  • #31
    The spinning rod inside a tube does work quite well. I have tried it. I put just that over my power metre when we were fighting the power company over smart meters. But it is difficult to win a fight with people that are allowed to break the law. I just ran into this last year and it is why I am still dealing with a degree of PTSD. However, a rod in tube is of course very limited to a very straight tube. It certainly will work for a plane window and similar. And yes, it very much slows down an angle grinder or even stops it. What would most likely work the best against an angle grinder is a rod inside a tube with the space filled with very coarse abrasive granules, say tungsten carbide coarse grit mixed with any sort of goop. That would quickly destroy the grinder wheel. I did have about a litre or so of that but I think it has disappeared in the recent move, as so many of my things have.

    Another very similar way would be to fill a curved or flexible outer sheath with very coarse ceramic grit but that would only slow the process as it can be cleaned away from the inner cable or straps or whatever. That would most likely be enough though. The user of such a slitting disc would most likely give up immediately that it seemed to stop working the way they are accustomed to. They don't want to spend any more time than they usually must to get through the locking system unless the situation is extremely private. They also tend to be less intelligent than average.

    Another type of inner rod that is very hard to slit is multiple copper tubes of telescoping sizes, especially if they are fully annealed. But, at this time I am very limited in what I have in terms of a shop and even when I get my lathe and mill set up I will still be limited in terms of what degree of noise I can make. Hopefully the local makers group will be of help in that respect. I will most likely join up with them as soon as I can. I look forward to teaching the young guys how to do machining. I first learned machining in high school at Berkeley High. They had a very fully equipped shop with multiple lathes and other equipment. It was set up to teach a trade back then. I also took three years of electronics trade training.
    Last edited by Evan; 03-22-2016, 09:12 PM.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by Evan View Post
      ...They also tend to be less intelligent than average....
      Yeah, most are utterly stupid. I have a padlock on what could euphemistically be called a gate at my shop. It doesn't actually lock anything, there's a simple hook right beside it. I don't think anyone has ever looked closely at it. They just step over the gate.

      The smart ones will get what they want. Yes, actual bike theft insurance is stupidly expensive, but an Ebike doesn't need it. Tenant insurance will cover it, but there will be a fairly high deductible. You might want to shop around for that.

      If you go with a bike cover, make sure it's not baggy enough for someone to hide under it while doing their thing. Don't want to make it easier for them.

      Do NOT make any kind of booby trap, other than at most a dye spray. I know someone on probation (ie, criminal record) because he made what amounted to a noise maker to scare people away. Of course, telling the people it will kill them if they touch it probably factored in. Don't threaten either.

      I have no idea how bad bike thefts are around here, other than having one dumped at my shop. The cops appreciated me returning it. The Victoria Motorcycle club, of which I'm a member, has reported a few thefts over the years, but not outrageous. Me... I park my motorbikes inside, nearly always. Reason #1 for my shop. The bicycle, used for commuting, has a 1/8" cable with a simple padlock. Never been touched... then again, I paid $169 for it, new, a decade ago. It's pretty much junk. That's the easiest way to avoid theft

      With the advent of youtube, I'd say the best way to secure something is by going non-standard. The best locks in the world can be defeated, and how to defeat them is near instant public knowledge. Do something weird. I like the idea of hydraulic hose; it would throw off anyone looking at it. No youtube vids on that one .

      Actually, how about a hose you connect, then pressurize from inside the vehicle and this IS the lock. If you looked at it, it would just be this weird steel braided hose... no lock. But, it won't disconnect. And if you cut it then it makes an ungodly whistling noise, then the 12v compressor starts rattling away. That would be something different. No youtube vid showing exactly how to defeat it, for educational purposes only, of course. Floppy to throw around the scooter, then stiff when the pressure is up. Might work. Just need a connection that won't release under pressure.

      David...
      http://fixerdave.blogspot.com/

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      • #33
        Yes, and I have a very good 12 volt compressor. I also have a suggestion from one of the members that I guess he doesn't want to post so he messaged me with it. It is very simple and should work well. I still like the hose with ink inside. There is no way the cops can get on your case for that since they also use it.

        David, can you give me some idea what the deductible will be?
        Last edited by Evan; 03-23-2016, 01:28 AM.
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          ...David, can you give me some idea what the deductible will be?
          My last tenant package was $300 or so, and now my condo package (which covers $15k "somewhere else") is in the $400 range. Again, you can shop around. My criteria for insurance has always been covering that stuff somewhere else, because of how I do my shop, and the deductible has been less of an issue to me. I have never claimed against my insurance, so I have no idea how much of a hassle it would be nor how much the premiums would go up. Hopefully, I won't have an answer to that anytime soon.

          David...
          http://fixerdave.blogspot.com/

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          • #35
            no, any kind of booby trap will get you in trouble. squirting ink winds up in the guys eyes, and both of you are totally screwed, even with a neon sign in english and french warning them. there is LOTS of stuff police do that is illegal for non-special people to also do.

            pretty much the limit is what department stores do--the security tabs that if you break them, ink flows out onto whatever.

            put a lock on the hitch pin, another on the bike [get/make one that protects the key slot from crud], maybe rig up a secret switch that disables the ignition and call it a day.

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            • #36
              The hose with ink or dye inside. I like that. Not much need for high pressurization, just enough to ensure that the ink or dye "bleeds" well if the hose is cut. If a length of aircraft cable were threaded through the hose, cutting the hose becomes somewhat slower and messier, spreading the ink.

              Twelve bucks for a 36" length, fittings included: http://www.mcmaster.com/#2044k44/=11nv6xi

              The hose would have to start and end inside some sort of armored box, with integral lock in the cover. Gets fancier if a pressure switch sensing pressure loss triggers an alarm.

              Added: one end of hose connected to pressure device in steel box, the other end closed with a pipe cap with a ring welded on. Thread hose through/around bike, drop ring over pin in armored box and close and lock cover.
              Weston Bye - Author, The Mechatronist column, Digital Machinist magazine
              ~Practitioner of the Electromechanical Arts~

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              • #37
                bye
                Last edited by Guido; 03-23-2016, 05:19 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  I really like the spray something idea. If you warned the thief very clearly that trying to break the lock in any way would release a high powered spray of ink they wouldn't have any way to deal with that and would just leave it for somebody else. That's my bet anyway. Let them know just what they will be dealing with. Then it could be dirt simple.
                  Might I recommend while ink is a great idea, Nobody is stopping you from putting some.. More interesting warning symbols and being a little more vague?

                  "Warning, Bike protected by fluid discharge system. Fluid may be hazordist to your health <Poison symbol, Corrosion symbol, Oil injected into hands symbol>"

                  Im sure some food dye and baking soda qualifies for all 3 of those symbols just fine, some people are allergic to certain food dyes.

                  After all, they put those symbols on everything under your kitchen sink (ok maybe not the fluid injected into hands one but..)
                  Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Guido View Post
                    Retired LA Sheriffs deputy advice to me, do not use any type of explosive warning device, large or small, to deter would be theft of a collector car. The bomb squad stands by, anxious to bring anything that appears to be booby trapped to a final conclusion.

                    Best suggestions include hidden GPS transponders with auto ignition cutoff capability.

                    If'n you're given a satchel of money by a bank teller, be ready for a red dye bath upon opening.

                    YMMV
                    Yea. those movies of the bomb squad carefully 'disarming' a bomb are BS too.
                    What they really do is clear everyone out, attach another bomb to the car and detonate. Or spray it with a hydrojet that cuts through steel like a hot knife through butter. Basically they destroy the suspected object without much inspection because that is just safer then taking the risk.
                    Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                    • #40
                      also, don't focus on specific tools being used. other common methods include picking the lock [you'd be surprised how fast someone can do this], liquid nitrogen from a thermos [used for breaking all those super-hard-to-saw/cut bike locks], bolt cutters [on locks, chain links, cables].

                      and BC has more than their fair share of experienced bike thieves...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Guido View Post
                        Just passin' thru, but if a quality, coiled spring, ie garage door spring, were slipped over any mild steel bar, then a mild steel tube slipped over both bar and spring------I'd like to watch hack sawyer try working his way through all three.

                        Another thunk: A sealed, annular space twix two tubes, pressurized with gaseous/liquid mercaptan. We'd pay to watch (via remote video) a sawyer try to broach that package.
                        I wonder what happens if you try and cut through a spring that is under heavy compression, inside of a tube? Tube could be bent if you had a nice smooth bender

                        I am betting as soon as you cut through it, it grabs the side of whatever your using to cut very securely and snaps it/stalls it.. Repeat every time you try and cut it.

                        Ideally, put a rod (aircraft wire rope?) through the center so they can't just cut all the way around the outside pipe.
                        Play Brutal Nature, Black Moons free to play highly realistic voxel sandbox game.

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                        • #42
                          Another security measure might be a video camera to record anyone messing with the bike or the vehicle. And maybe a speaker that activates on vibration or proximity and announces that the attempted theft or vandalism is being recorded and stored remotely. It could also trigger a loud alarm and bright lights as well.
                          http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                          Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                          USA Maryland 21030

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                          • #43
                            You could fabricate a boot type box or device that the front tire rolls in to. Then some combination of 1, 2, or more locks, pins, cables, whatever through the front tire that would be difficult to get at to cut. The device would be attached or welded to the rack.

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                            • #44
                              Tie a skunk to the bike. Make sure you make friends with the skunk before! Or have the skunk desented. I was sprayed by a skunk as a kid. Not a good experience at all.
                              Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                              How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Dave
                                other common methods include picking the lock (you'd be surprised how fast someone can do this)
                                I'm not surprised at all. Once upon a time a co-worker salesman dropped by our house to show off his new car. For some reason we got on the subject of breaking in to it and he showed me the new locking system and how it was supposed to be hard to get into. It had the bidirectional key that works either way you put it in. I stepped in the house and snagged my lock pics. It took me all of about 3 seconds to open, just about the same speed as using the actual key. Yes, I got a bit lucky on that one. It most often might take 10 to 20 seconds to hit the torque and twist just right along with the pin runner.

                                The salesman was not impressed.

                                There are some nice ideas here and I do indeed have more than one camera perfect for the recording of activity but that just helps with the evidence that it really was stolen. Still, it makes it easier to claim insurance. I am sure I will be able to make something here work quite well and I expect the scooter to stay where I last put it. In my life I have only been robbed twice, once from a vehicle and once in a house and the house job was not ordinary circumstances.

                                I don't think I want to try a skunk. In the past they have at times lived in the vicinity of where I used to live and even if they get along well with you they sometimes will let a small blast go for no particular reason. They are easy to startle, just like cats are. Besides, I may want to find a new girl friend. (I mentioned that to a friend today and he said "That's easy, they are like buses, another one comes along every 20 minutes")


                                Last edited by Evan; 03-23-2016, 06:34 PM.
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