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CLAUSING 5913 5914 Vari-Speed Drive REBUILD Q's <---

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  • CLAUSING 5913 5914 Vari-Speed Drive REBUILD Q's <---

    Just acquired a one owner CLAUSING 5913.
    Holds <0.001" on ground rod from 2" from the chuck to about 14" out, held by the live center. Nice.

    Ought to have looked more when I went to see the machine, but it was buy it and load it and drive, although I did run it and notice some excessive vibration. Frankly, I had not fully investigated the entire Vari-speed thing in advance. My bad. But this looked like just about the right lathe for me, or one like it - although the 14" version might have been better. Anyhow, it's here.

    I've searched the web pretty extensively on this now. Close to maybe as expert as one can get from reading and not doing.
    So a few Q's, hopefully someone has first hand experience.

    1) the belt - apparently the 1930V400 (called for by Clausing) has a 30deg angle. But the cones have (apparently) 22 degree angle.
    So, is the 1930V403 with a 22 degree angle actually the correct belt? Or does Clausing want a thinner - lighter contact
    area for smoother running, and better adjustment, longer belt life??

    1a) I have bought both belts, since they'd be needed no matter what, and I'm going to "pop them in" and see if the vibration in the drive is due to worn/out of spec belts or not.

    Note: after looking at at least a dozen videos of 5913/4 lathes on Yoohootoobe, I heard only one that did not growl and rumble - that one was smooth and I only heard the whine of the spindle. That's what I want.

    2) The shaft bushing rebuild.
    2a) Method 1: Moglice + bored delrin bushing
    Method 2: Bronze bushing on shaft + delrin bushing on pulley <---anyone done this or have an old lathe with the bronze bushie??
    Method 3: Machined down shaft, polished & hard chromed : delrin or bronze bushing on pulley

    Opinions? Ideas?

    Anyone actually DONE the bronze bushie method? With the delrin, it seems fine since there will be no wear or lube issues with the bronze, so it can be a tough/hard bronze on the shaft. With either the pulley bore or the shaft hard chromed (seems like an attractive approach) my concern is about lube - even using an Oilite bronze bushie, they say that they want/need heat to maintain lube and with the simple short slide for occasional adjustment I don't see that happening. Plus standard lube tends to not work between tight smooth surfaces that have no way to hold the lube/oil in place, and there is the potential for slinging. But I like the idea of bronze on hard chrome (or even polished steel)

    I'd actually like to avoid the moglice method, since the bronze bushie + delrin sleeve seems more straightforward - the downside (if there is one) is that it looks like one has to take more of the shaft off to fit the bronze bushing and have enough bronze thickness, unless you use one of these newer high techie (seemingly very thin) bushings - but then maybe the keyway becomes problematic.

    Okay, (3) Direct drive? Skip the rebuild of the bottom keep the clutch, so the center cones can be shimmed and set fixed, or replaced as some have with a flat belt pulley - then the question remaining is AC or DC motor, and IF DC, what controller method? If AC, the controller is pretty straight forward, but what speed motor?

    The motor speed becomes important at low speeds because the AC motor is losing torque. The DC motor is said to maintain torque at low RPM. So, try to find a 3450rpm (is that the right number) AC motor, and use a step down to bring it into standard range for the lathe, gaining some low end torque? Over size the motor??

    Where's the trade-off balance point for all of this? Ease/simplciity/cost/smoothness of running/time to get the job done, that's the equation.

    Your input is appreciated!

  • #2
    Hi,

    Look at 3 phase inverter duty motors with single phase in / three phase out VFD
    Toolznthings

    Comment


    • #3
      I replaced the bushings on my 5913. They are still nice and snug. The coating was OK on both. My machine is pretty quiet with the exception of the clutch plates that rattle when the spindle is in neural. The set screws on the motor pulley loosen up every now and then and have to be tightened, when they loosen up you can hear it.

      JL..............

      Comment


      • #4
        I removed my busted varidrive and replaced with a NON inverter duty motor and vfd. No problems whatsover (but I don't run this thing 24-7, 8-5, or even 2-1.... practically speaking). I did keep the clutch assembly, although I never use it and will likely remove it the next time I feel like doing machine work. I have the older style 5900 with the clutch lever on the head stock pillar, not the carriage... so it's inconvenient. FWIW, I don't worry about "low speed" with an inverter, as I just use the back gear.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TOOLZNTHINGS View Post
          Hi,

          Look at 3 phase inverter duty motors with single phase in / three phase out VFD
          Sure.
          But the question is about torque at low RPMs (machine RPMs) vs. motor RPM vs. motor torque.

          So, what I questioned is perhaps look for a higher RPM motor, and run with a step down ratio at the
          motor pulley to keep the motor RPM high for the equivalent spindle RPM, maintaining a good torque "headroom"??

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi,

            I found great help by calling Automation Direct and talking to their techs about your application.
            Toolznthings

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TOOLZNTHINGS View Post
              Hi,

              I found great help by calling Automation Direct and talking to their techs about your application.
              I may do that, did not know about this place.
              But I prefer to talk to people first before dealing with any commercial outfit, and know the lay of the land first.

              Hoping folks here may have had experience in solving this or a similar problem and what they found.

              JoeLee, iirc the "slop" in the clutch plates is adjustable with a threaded collar (with a setscrew) on the clutch assembly -
              this from the photos and drawings - I haven't yet pulled the unit myself.

              Btw, the belts came in yesterday, so somewhere in the next few weeks I hope to get a better look at the whole
              thing and try out fresh belts, see if that smooths out the machine or not.

              But thanks for the responses so far...

              _-_-

              Comment


              • #8
                Not familiar with your drive, but sounds like it may be similar to my Boxford VSL in that it has spring loaded drive cones and an angled belt that rides inside to get 'variable' drive ratios. If so, check the surface of the cones, as they are prone to becoming stepped due to lathe being run at one speed, and belt wear (I'm guessing). The steps/grooves will grab the wider/upper edges of the belt and pull it until it releases over and over creating some substantial vibration. VFD would be nice fix, or possiby leverage the purchase of a second lathe to fix the first!-ST-

                Comment


                • #9
                  The varidrive gives constant horsepower to the spindle so the torque goes up as the speed goes down. To get the best life you should run it through the whole speed range often. Wear in one spot is a problem and I had to turn the pulleys on my bridgeport.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by garyhlucas View Post
                    The varidrive gives constant horsepower to the spindle so the torque goes up as the speed goes down. To get the best life you should run it through the whole speed range often. Wear in one spot is a problem and I had to turn the pulleys on my bridgeport.
                    Mine already has issues. It has been run up and down in speed by the previous owner, no sign of excessive wear spots - expect to face the pulleys (unless they look pristine) assuming it does get rebuilt.

                    Still hoping someone happens by who has personal experience doing the rebuild...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bearzbear View Post
                      I may do that, did not know about this place.
                      But I prefer to talk to people first before dealing with any commercial outfit, and know the lay of the land first.

                      Hoping folks here may have had experience in solving this or a similar problem and what they found.

                      JoeLee, iirc the "slop" in the clutch plates is adjustable with a threaded collar (with a setscrew) on the clutch assembly -
                      this from the photos and drawings - I haven't yet pulled the unit myself.

                      Btw, the belts came in yesterday, so somewhere in the next few weeks I hope to get a better look at the whole
                      thing and try out fresh belts, see if that smooths out the machine or not.

                      But thanks for the responses so far...

                      _-_-
                      Yes, I am aware of that. I rebuilt the entire machine. The problem is if you tighten up the ring to eliminate the rattle it starts to put drag on the clutch plates. The spindle will sometimes slowly start turn when it should be stopped. So............ you have to have a little play in it. It's a fine line and I've fiddled with it off and on. I was thinking of putting a wad of silicone on the top edge of the clutch plates to keep them from rattling.

                      JL...............

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by garyhlucas View Post
                        The varidrive gives constant horsepower to the spindle so the torque goes up as the speed goes down. To get the best life you should run it through the whole speed range often. Wear in one spot is a problem and I had to turn the pulleys on my bridgeport.
                        Running it in one spot all the time is what wears the pulley halves. I try and run mine at slightly different speeds when I use it.

                        JL...............

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                          Yes, I am aware of that. I rebuilt the entire machine. The problem is if you tighten up the ring to eliminate the rattle it starts to put drag on the clutch plates. The spindle will sometimes slowly start turn when it should be stopped. So............ you have to have a little play in it. It's a fine line and I've fiddled with it off and on. I was thinking of putting a wad of silicone on the top edge of the clutch plates to keep them from rattling.

                          JL...............
                          Yeah, ok... I only hear a bit of "click---click" as the machine slows...
                          I'm unclear on the source of the noise I hear, and certainly the noise you hear.
                          So, I can't offer any potential solutions.

                          Silicone will dampen the sound, not eliminate it.

                          But thinking about it ---- If it's the plates that contact the clutch material, that would be different than if it were the clutch material itself, I would expect.
                          IF it is the plates, you might be able to adhere some elastomeric material (aka "rubber") of appropriate hardness and size to the where the
                          "ears" (that I think, if I remember the pix/prints) stick out so as to place a constant load on them - they'd squeeze ok when the clutch
                          was engaged, and not be free to rattle when off... of course they'll die after a certain number of hours... and you have to get them to stick...
                          maybe a solid ring can be fitted?

                          Maybe it's not worth the work/worry...

                          I know about the single speed wear issue, my vibration is not due to wear on the face of the Vari-speed pulleys.

                          _-_-

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi,

                            I bought a 1300 series Clausing lathe in 1978 new. I'm sure the drives are the same set per friend who has same lathe as yours. Used the lathe for over 35 years to make my living. Only replaced motor bearings once and seals on vari-drive pistons. Original clutch discs. I would think that restoring your drive to original specs would prove to be reliable.
                            Toolznthings

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A sensorless vector VFD can maintain induction motor full load torque well below half speed( 30 HZ) The drive does cost a little more than the standard V/Hz drive, but is worth it IMHO.
                              As far a base motor speed is concerned, I recommend the following procedure: Decide what the max spindle speed will be on the lathe and what the fixed speed reduction ratio at the motor shaft will be. Chose a base motor speed that when run at 120 Hz( 2X base speed) comes close to matching the max spindle speed multiplied by the reduction ratio. You will probably end up with a 4-pole ( 1750 RPM) or a 6-pole (1150 RPM) motor. 2-pole motors don't have as good a low speed torque characteristic so are not recommended. 4-pole motors are more common and cheaper than 6-pole so are more desirable. In fact, it is probably worth it to redesign the speed reduction mechanism so that a 4-pole works out as the proper choice. A quality motor( TEFC enclosure recommended) will tolerate 120 Hz without damage. So, this give a speed range of about 120 Hz down to about 10 Hz or 12:1. I have used this arrangement on my 13x36 Jet ( belt-drive) w/ 2HP motor for about 17 years with satisfaction. I do have the option of moving the spindle drive belt and/or using back gear if needed, but I have not needed to do that in years.

                              RWO
                              Last edited by RWO; 03-24-2016, 03:00 PM.

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