Wire size drills

[1937 Chief]

I am changing a cook stove to natural gas, I was given the size drill needed. The drill I need is called a #49 Morse drill. What is a Morse Drill? Thanks Stan

[Joel]

Far as I know, Morse is just a brand name and all you need is a standard #49 drill, which is .073 diameter. A morse taper shank would not be relevant (or available) of course.
With number size bits, the larger the number, the smaller the hole. An 80 is .0135 diameter and a #1 is .228

[J Tiers]

"Morse drill" is an old name for a standard twist drill.

[Carm]

"Morse drill" is an old name for a standard twist drill.

Morse makes all sorts of cutting tools. "Morse drill" maybe came about because lots of guys had the drill chart/tap sizes card in their pocket or box.
I believe the company was founded by Stephen Morse, and his tapers, though not his candles, have been used in hip arthroplasty.

[JoeLee]

"Morse drill" is an old name for a standard twist drill.

Some of the old terminology can be confusing. I talk to people that still think Silver and Deming is a brand name.

JL.............

[Carm]

Some of the old terminology can be confusing. I talk to people that still think Silver and Deming is a brand name.

JL.............

Must be my day for old tool history.
Yepper, Silver & Deming was a brand name, and those two fellows, Albert and John, respectively, had the idea for reduced shank drills.
They didn't get a patent, but the name lives on.

[AD5MB]

I talk to people that still think Silver and Deming is a brand name.

no, they are cities in NM. what we call cities here are wide spots in the road elsewhere.

[J Tiers]

The term "Morse drill" is from back in the 1800s when "drills" were flat drills. The "Morse drill" was one of the early twist drills, and became popular, and the name stuck for a while, like "kleenex". The taper ditto, again back in the 1800s.

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

Far as I know, Morse is just a brand name and all you need is a standard #49 drill, which is .073 diameter. A morse taper shank would not be relevant (or available) of course.
With number size bits, the larger the number, the smaller the hole. An 80 is .0135 diameter and a #1 is .228

Who in their right mind invented to call things with #this and #that? Why not just call out the actual measurement, as that's what the measuring tools do and say and then there is no need for lookup tables.

[mklotz]

Who in their right mind invented to call things with #this and #that? Why not just call out the actual measurement, as that's what the measuring tools do and say and then there is no need for lookup tables.

Well said, Jakko! That's what happens in countries that don't create or adopt an intelligently designed measurement system but rather allow measures and nomenclature of convenience into general usage. Letter drills, wire and sheet labeled by how often it's been through the forming mechanism, and idiocies like 000-120 taps are but a few of the curiosities. We have AA, AAA, and AAAA batteries. The list goes on.

A rational nomenclature system should satisfy:

* name expressly describes size or other pertinent attribute
* "smaller" names should denote smaller sizes/attributes and vice versa
* the nomenclature should be open-ended at both ends. {If someone starts making drills smaller than 'A', no nonsense like "AAA" required.)

A nomenclature based on measurable size satisfies all these requirements.

[J Tiers]

Who in their right mind invented to call things with #this and #that? Why not just call out the actual measurement, as that's what the measuring tools do and say and then there is no need for lookup tables.

For the exact same reason that people did that everywhere in europe as well. OUR crazy measurement system is from the UK, mostly, with variations, but it isn't as if every other place didn't have (and in some ways still actually use) measurement units similar to inches and pounds, number sizes, etc.

The number drill series MAKES PERFECT SENSE if you realize why it was created. Back in the 1800s, wire sizes were given numbers, and "wire" was sold with size described by those numbers. Apparently they sold lots of wire, and folks bought wire according to the numbers, it became a "standard" by default.

By default, because there was no dictator to direct that ALL measurements (of wire in this case) would be made ONLY in those units.

OK, so if you wanted to drill a hole to put the end of a piece of "wire" (could also be rod) into, naturally you drilled it the size of the wire. So drills were made in those sizes to fit the already standard wire. See? Not at all difficult to understand after all.

No need for lookup tables, if you want a hole for #46 wire, get a #46 drill. Easy, and apparently made sense to them.

You already understand how fractional inch drills came about.

Fractional metre or mm drills are obviously from the same source idea, but the fraction is 1/10, 1/100, etc, and not 1/64, 1/128, etc. To me, either is fine, powers of two, powers of 10, whatever. If we had 12 fingers, it would all be powers of 12. Completely arbitrary, there is absolutely no magic to the number 10.

I don't know why there are "letter series" drills, but I assume something similar to the number, or "wire size" drills is the explanation.

It is both silly, (really almost stupid) and unproductive, to rant about how crazy some measurement system is, etc, etc. They are all usable, the big thing is to agree on one of them. And, we all DO agree on SI. It (in the form of the metre etc) was legalized in the US in 1868, and for a while was the ONLY actually and technically "legal" system IN the US. Eventually the customary inch units were defined in MM, and legalized in that way.

The metric system (a meaningless name) was popularized by the French revolution, to get rid of all the bourgeois measurements that were used to cheat the proletarians. Absent that, and the seeming universal veneration of all things French, there would BE no "metric system" in all likelihood. We would have, as SI, something different, but also internally reasonably consistent and usable.

BTW, the French apparently hated the metric system in its original form so much that they cut off the head of the inventor..... and then proceeded to change the parts they did NOT like BACK to crazy customary units. Nobody seems to have done that with the wire gauge guy, but then he did not have to deal with a the same form of government.

[RancherBill]

Who in their right mind invented to call things with #this and #that? Why not just call out the actual measurement, as that's what the measuring tools do and say and then there is no need for lookup tables.

It is mentioned that Morse was the first to make twist drills. Waaaaaay back then the level of measurement was primitive. There were not the delicate instruments we have today. Simple letters or numbers was meaningful.

I saw a Ford film from the 1930s and they were about mileage and they said it go 22 4/10 miles per gallon. With all the fancy new math we would say 22.4 mpg.

Times change, education levels change, customs change etc.

[Georgineer]

BTW, the French apparently hated the metric system in its original form so much that they cut off the head of the inventor..... Nobody seems to have done that with the wire gauge guy.....

With the number of different wire gauges in use in addition to the Morse, it would have been more of a massacre!

George

[Lew Hartswick]

no, they are cities in NM. what we call cities here are wide spots in the road elsewhere.

Now that is Funny. I hadn't even made the connection and I've been here for 25 years. :-)
...lew...

[cameron]

With the number of different wire gauges in use in addition to the Morse, it would have been more of a massacre!

George

Like the French revolution, you mean?