Wire size drills

[J Tiers]

John - I agree with you. All those things exist. And in a free society these things - outdated and cumbersome - tend to hang on forever and ever. That is why we elect people to certain positions to use common sense and we give them the authority needed to make decisions even if these don't always represent the majority. That is called "Leadership", not "Dictatorship". For the common good we in the US (our leaders) decided to drive on the right side. We would have chaos on our streets if everybody was to do his own thing. It is called "passing a law".
The cowardly way out is for politicians to keep pushing out the implementations of laws over years and years, trying to please some people who like to hang on to somethings no longer needed. The saying is:"One can always depend on the US to do the right thing - soon after they try everything else first. (Churchill)
That will happen with health care, with the change to metric, with the way we pay for schools, with the way we build our highways etc. etc..
We can not even agree to change the old 1$ bill to a coin. To heavy for some. In 1959 you needed 7 to 9 cents in your pocket for one Newspaper. The 1$ bill is the dirtiest thing around, but one Senators State makes the paint and another State makes the paper.
Democracy is a very bad form of government....but all the others are - in the long run - much worse.

We've been working on metric now for just short of 150 years...... we even had to legalize inches based on metric

[Juergenwt]

John - I agree with you. All those things exist. And in a free society these things - outdated and cumbersome - tend to hang on forever and ever. That is why we elect people to certain positions to use common sense and we give them the authority needed to make decisions even if these don't always represent the majority. That is called "Leadership", not "Dictatorship". For the common good we in the US (our leaders) decided to drive on the right side. We would have chaos on our streets if everybody was to do his own thing. It is called "passing a law".
The cowardly way out is for politicians to keep pushing out the implementations of laws over years and years, trying to please some people who like to hang on to somethings no longer needed. The saying is:"One can always depend on the US to do the right thing - soon after they try everything else first. (Churchill)
That will happen with health care, with the change to metric, with the way we pay for schools, with the way we build our highways etc. etc..
We can not even agree to change the old 1$ bill to a coin. To heavy for some. In 1959 you needed 7 to 9 cents in your pocket for one Newspaper. The 1$ bill is the dirtiest thing around, but one Senators State makes the paint and another State makes the paper.
Democracy is a very bad form of government....but all the others are - in the long run - much worse.

[danlb]

A long time ago I attempted to fit a polynomial to the number drill progression of sizes. I could never get a simple fit (ie less than four terms) that gave satisfactory accuracy. However, in the process I discovered that the progression agreed most closely with the Stubb's steel wire gage progression. My guess is that is where we got what we use in the USA today. Be careful; among the plethora of gages from which to choose (another problem with many nomenclature systems) there is a Stubb's IRON wire gage.

I also noticed, as you point out, that there were small, completely unexplained, variations of the number drill sizes from the Stubb's wire gage.

The idea that any of these idiotic nomenclatures derived from measures of convenience make sense or should be preserved as part of our mechanical heritage is pure bat guano. Humans make enough mistakes using rational systems; there is no need to introduce purposeful
confusion.

Unfortunately, it appears that at one point, the US standards were based on physical master standards.

The story of the Morse Taper is an example of how it goes wrong. As I recall, the taper was supposed to be a relatively small angle of 2° 50′, with the mathematical relation that tang 2° 50' = 5 %. When the samples were submitted to the Bureau of Standards they were measured and those dimensions became the standard. The samples ranged from 1° 25' 43" for the MT1 to 1° 30' 26" for the MT5.

I imagine that some of the gages used are similarly based on measurement of samples, and therefore don't hold to any particular mathematical relationship.

[J Tiers]

Wow!! Just reading what some people promoting the existence of "Number (Wire), Letter and Fractional Drills" are writing, makes me think of our current political drama in Washington. Their (the politicians) own arguments make the case for the opposition. In this case the change to Metric.
...

You are missing the point..... It is not that everyone like them.....

Wire size EXIST, letter size EXIST, fractional EXIST. For at least wire size and fractional, there was a good reason at the time. But they EXIST, and many things are based on them. It would be difficult to do what has been done in other places, to make them illegal, and require that only metric units, and hard metric sizes (even mm and half mm) be sold or used. So they persist.

Of course, back near the time those wire size etc were created, the only LEGALLY RECOGNIZED system in the US was actually metric (1868). Inches and pounds were not legally recognized until later, they were just "there" and unquestioned. It would have been simple enough to just forget about them back then, but it was not done.

[CCWKen]

I'm used to working with planishing hammers, power hammers and numerous air powered tools and always wear safety gear. I would be more concerned with the vibration. I bought the HF small palm hammer and was presently surprised at the power. I practiced using it with my left hand. It drives a 3 1/2" spiral shank nail into dried white pine (treated lumber scrap) with no problem at all. My intent is to regulate it and use it for sheet metal work since I've been having problems with my right wrist. (sprain and now arthritis) I can't swing a hammer or grip with much force with my right hand now. The same reason for the air stapler. I'll use it in place of my Arrow T-50 stapler since I can't squeeze hard enough to fire that. And I've got some upholstery work coming up that will need staples.

My whole shop is practically air powered so placement and a quite air compressor was a consideration from the beginning.

That's pleasantly surprised, not presently surprised... Darn spell checker.

[Stepside]

CCWKEN

Be careful with the palm nailer. I have a small one and used it where I could not swing a hammer. So it was rata tat tat for each 4 penny nail. After a couple of nails I heard what sounded like an echo. I stopped for a drink from the ever-present coffee mug. The echo continued. It seems the nailer sounds like a Northern Flicker in love and the Flicker was using the neighbor's metal chimney to answer back. I finished the job on Monday and was still getting the echo 4 days later.

The only problem with the palm nailer or an air powered stapler is listening to the air compressor.

Pete

[CCWKen]

I guess I live a sheltered life. When you get old, you look for ways to reduce work. I just bought a palm nailer and an air powered stapler so I don't what you're talking about.

[cameron]

I have two of them. One is in the antique tool cabinet the other hangs on a wall as an attraction. In this age of battery power, I ask again; Who's going to use it--On purpose? Unless, of course, you're off the grid and like flogging yourself.

I agree that drilling a 1" hole through an 8X8 hardwood post is not a lot of fun after the first few inches, but everybody needs a brace for driving large slotted head screws, and even more so for removing them.

[PStechPaul]

We're discussing wire size or number drills here. Were did you get the idea that the diameter of the shank is not the same, as the size (of the bit)?

In my machine shop class the instructor told us not to measure the drill by the shank. I searched on-line and found a few mentions of the possibility that shank size may not be the same as the drill size. This is obviously the case for Silver and Deming drills, but may be true for others. Also, the shank may have the size stamped on it, which can cause a raised portion, and there are sometimes scar marks where a drill has spun in the chuck.

http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/custom-manufacturing-fabricating/drill-bit-shanks

http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm (note at bottom)

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/article/2266/Drill_Bits_101.html

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-22184.html (shanks have slight taper, measure across flutes)

http://neme-s.org/2005%20May%20Meeting/drills.pdf (back taper)

[Juergenwt]

Wow!! Just reading what some people promoting the existence of "Number (Wire), Letter and Fractional Drills" are writing, makes me think of our current political drama in Washington. Their (the politicians) own arguments make the case for the opposition. In this case the change to Metric.
Any idea of just how many "gauges" there are?
Here are some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_metal
Some more:http://engineersedge.com/gauge.htm
And more:http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Note at the bottom the very simple metric Wire Size in mm.
More here:https://sizes.com/materials/wire.htm
Makes sense? I am sure it does to some people. There just has to be a reason for all of these. Or - may be not anymore?

[Rosco-P]

I have two of them. One is in the antique tool cabinet the other hangs on a wall as an attraction. In this age of battery power, I ask again; Who's going to use it--On purpose? Unless, of course, you're off the grid and like flogging yourself.

Same person who will use a file instead of a grinder or a wood chisel instead of breaking out the power planer.
You can find wood augers up to 2" pretty intended for use in a brace cheap at tag sales. If you need an 1-1/2" hole four inches deep in a piece of wood, your options are?

[JCHannum]

Why is a bit called a bit?

[CCWKen]

I have two of them. One is in the antique tool cabinet the other hangs on a wall as an attraction. In this age of battery power, I ask again; Who's going to use it--On purpose? Unless, of course, you're off the grid and like flogging yourself.

[Carm]

Why was that called a "brace." That term never made sense to me.

Because you had to brace yourself for a slog when about to use it.

[lynnl]

I can and have, quite extensively actually, but...I have a brace.

Why was that called a "brace." That term never made sense to me.