"Tessy" only the beginning

[danlb]

This is silly. The Tesla is not an autonomous car - it augments but is not designed to be a delivery van. It absolutely needs a driver in the car and that driver needs to be paying attention - hands hovering over the wheel. We all would be better drivers if we thought our car was trying to kill us.

Sorry. Feeling ornery today.

You have to make up your mind. You've said it's an evil design that will kill you and make to ignore the task of driving. Faced with the fact that the Tesla with driver-less operation has only 8% of the accidents that conventional cars have, you claim that it promotes enhanced driver perception and reaction times!

Personally, I find that figure (0.09 per 100million miles) is odd. That would be something like one death per billion miles and I don't think they have put a billion miles on the model S with driver assist yet. They have had the one death.

Dan

[danlb]

you can read about stuff in books all day long and ace your written drivers test but still not have a clue as to what to do when the real life situation arises,
My full control - shift on the fly -on demand - knee jerk reaction P-brake initiated power slides are just that - a work of art - unlike you iv taken it well beyond the k-mart parking lots and also not needing snow to utilize it, can be quite the game changer to say the least...

Ah yes, the instinctual emergency maneuver that you have to execute perfectly when you do something dumb that causes you to lose control of your car.

In 45 years of driving I've never needed to do that maneuver. I've never lost control of my car in the snow either, though I only go to snow country once a year so one could argue that I'm not exposed to it enough for it to be a problem. One could also argue that I should be losing control each trip since I don't get the constant practice that snow country residents get.

In industrial safety courses you are taught that it's MUCH BETTER to avoid a situation that requires emergency corrective action. The same advice was given in driving schools. I'll exchange a system that does not lose control for one that lets me recover from loss of control every day.

BTW. Did I mention that I'm feeling ornery today? Sorry.

Dan

[RB211]

I dare say that it would not have taken much of an AI to do better than that human crew.

Seriously, my PC's flight simulator could accurately model a small plane AND the approach to the local airport 10 years ago, complete with force feedback to the rudders and stick. Assuming sensors and servos that work properly I can see where it would be possible to create an AI that would land the plane absent any outside guidance such as ILS depends upon.

Maybe it's not a problem. Most pilots don't suffer from bad judgment. Most follow the rules and procedures. Most get enough sleep and don't drink before flying. Most retire when they find that they are occasionally messing up. Maybe a totally automated system would not be additive.

Dan

The maker of X-plane created such a device to be used in general aviation, using gps positional data. Hit the panic button, automatically puts the airplane in best glide speed towards nearest airport and lands it. Using the same data that a synthetic vision device would use. I wouldn't call it AI, just a bunch of mathematical equations and algorithms to avoid obstacles that are stored in its database. Could you imagine the similar database a car would need, and how frequently it would need to be updated? You wouldn't do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PStechPaul]

Originally Posted by danlb

"You're". It's spelled "You're". Twice in one paragraph. If you can't manage simple grammar, I can see why you distrust others to be able to do more complex things without a bunch of mistakes. Sheesh.

Getting a little desperate aren't we? and no wonder we cannot see all the complexities involved --- now that it's come down to nitpicking "we" don't even have the ability to do simple math --- "you're" one misspell shy of a full deck, there's three misspells of the word You're in the above paragraph - solly - had both family and friends over for some brew's last night --- what's your excuse for the inability to add whilst trying to correct someone on their grammar?

Be careful about criticizing the criticism of others lest you make another mistake which squashes your credibility. The paragraph to which you refer has two "your" which should be "you're", and one "your" which is correct. So there are, indeed, two mistakes.

Then you write this, where the usage is correct but you would make an error if you were not "lazy":

save your ass results (that's right "your" ass cuz im really to lazy to put the ' deal down with the extra letter)

Other mistakes:

.. good luck with all the unforeseeable's

.. certain corrections in some area's

again your living in some kind of a dream word

as far as she want's to go

not everybody want's to be like you

I'm not nit-picking and I can excuse some such grammatical errors, but if you live in a grass house, be sure you don't stow thrones in the attic, or you will be crushed by your own inability to recognize your mistakes.

I agree that many or even most people have dumbed down to a pitiful nadir of cluelessness, as evidenced by asking them what the 4th of July commemorates, or when the Civil War or WW1 or WW2 happened, who were involved, and who won. When people lack even such basic and important historical knowledge, they cannot make responsible and informed decisions when they vote, and history may very well repeat itself. I think electronic games, computers, high tech gaming, virtual reality, and cell phones, have given rise to a generation dysfunctionally dependent upon such "crutches", and unable or unwilling to learn real-life skills.

Also, it seems that, as cars have become more crashworthy, crashes are becoming more common, because people think they won't be injured, and can drive more aggressively. The present legal framework also encourages people to sue and often win in cases where their own ignorance and stupidity are the prime causes of their injury.

[CarlByrns]

lol if that's as far as you've taken the oversteer turn is a k-mart parking lot then I at least commend you at doing something most don't even attempt

I learned brake turns at age 16, but in an Ames parking lot. It's a basic skill in autocross, which I used to do with my Fiat and a handy trick in local rallies (which I did for three seasons).

many of these vehicles have either viscous couplings for the "all time" 4WD manual tranny's or on the auto's 4WD engagement solenoids that kick in a clutch pack when the sensors detect that the wheels have an extreme variance change in rotation...

You might be interested to know that I worked at New Venture Gear on the Chrysler T115 AWD system and was the professional test driver for VC performance and durability. As an aside, I held the unofficial lap record on the 1/2 mile mud track (which I set with a S-10 Blazer).
Suffice to say, you really have no idea what you're babbling about.

Kind of a catch 22 there actually - most cars equipped with traction control are all time 4wd now in fact one begets the other

My G6 certainly wasn't AWD (that's the term you should be using. 4WD is for trucks) nor is any Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, any RWD Benz or BMW. They all have traction control and ABS. For that matter so do a lot of RWD American pickups and just about every FWD car on the market.

Mr. Bulliss, please lock this thread.

[A.K. Boomer]

Carlb --- tried to be nice - spare me your laughable hillbilly resume lol

If you were good at all - if you had any kind of a clue as to how the real world works - then you would not want to give up any of your skills to a programmer that locks you out from doing so -

as for me - I guess I will be driving increasingly older sleds ---- my safety need? give me a seat/shoulder belt and im good to go...

it's a pity because I would like to upgrade to direct injection gas turbo as that's a technology i could live with and in a place where it belongs... guess i'll just have to drop one in when someone stuffs their newer steed because they don't know how to control a mild spin lol

I don't blame you for selling out ---- if I had your limited abilities and lack of foresight I would also lol sit down...

[A.K. Boomer]

Be careful about criticizing the criticism of others lest you make another mistake which squashes your credibility. The paragraph to which you refer has two "your" which should be "you're", and one "your" which is correct. So there are, indeed, two mistakes.

.

Bravo Paul - point to the entire deal there is it's nitpicking and a sign of desperation - many use improper grammar as I sometimes even intentionally do and sometimes not - but it's not so far gone that you cannot read it and understand it - that's where the line should be drawn...

[dp]

Sorry. Feeling ornery today.

You have to make up your mind. You've said it's an evil design that will kill you and make to ignore the task of driving. Faced with the fact that the Tesla with driver-less operation has only 8% of the accidents that conventional cars have, you claim that it promotes enhanced driver perception and reaction times!

Personally, I find that figure (0.09 per 100million miles) is odd. That would be something like one death per billion miles and I don't think they have put a billion miles on the model S with driver assist yet. They have had the one death.

Dan

The Telsa has no driverless option. It has a best-effort speed and lane controller. I'm making the point that people who let the car drive itself are never more attentive than during that time. It is the driver, not the car, that is safer. Very few of those accumulated miles are actually autocontrolled. In just about every video you see where a car owner (vs a factory drone) is behind the wheel they appear to be very frightened and very alert.

It is the truly self-driving car - no check driver, which is where this is all going, becomes a problem. Self-driving cars with a check driver do not solve a problem. We have not yet experienced thousands of driverless cars on the highways and city roads mixing it up with humans in cars, trucks, buses, bikes, motorcycles, and pedestrians.

[A.K. Boomer]

My G6 certainly wasn't AWD (that's the term you should be using. 4WD is for trucks)

Please don't tell me what kind of term I should be using when you don't have a freaking clue yourself - as iv stated previously -- literally 100's of different systems on the market nowadays --- and all have various names some written right on the vehicles themselves - and the proper name for the NON-TRUCK honda's actually are called "real time 4wd"

again - sit down...

[danlb]

Please don't tell me what kind of term I should be using when you don't have a freaking clue yourself - as iv stated previously -- literally 100's of different systems on the market nowadays --- and all have various names some written right on the vehicles themselves - and the proper name for the NON-TRUCK honda's actually are called "real time 4wd"

again - sit down...

Wow. I wonder how my FWD Prius accomplishes it. I KNOW it's not 4wd, or even AWD. Neither is my wife's Toyota, nor my neighbor's Mazda, nor my other neighbor's Saturn. All of them have traction control.

As of December 2013, only 17% of the cars and crossovers were AWD*. I guess that once again A.K. is making up things to support his arguments.

Dan
* http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/all-...-shoppers.html

[danlb]

Carlb --- tried to be nice - spare me your laughable hillbilly resume lol

I've asked before, and I'll ask again. My family is from the hills of Tennessee. Please stop using the term "hillbilly" as an insult. That's denigrating to the memory of my grandmother. You are also using it incorrectly.

If you have to be an insulting bigot, please chose another group, preferably one to which you belong. I'm sure by your attitude that you will identify with many of the derogatory terms that you've been called in the past.

I find it laughable that a person who claims to understand cars as well as AK does even tries to BS the like of Carlb. It's especially silly when AK has no degree, no verifiable professional experience and apparently no training.

Dan

[A.K. Boomer]

Wow. I wonder how my FWD Prius accomplishes it. I KNOW it's not 4wd, or even AWD. Neither is my wife's Toyota, nor my neighbor's Mazda, nor my other neighbor's Saturn. All of them have traction control.

As of December 2013, only 17% of the cars and crossovers were AWD*. I guess that once again A.K. is making up things to support his arguments.

Dan
* http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/all-...-shoppers.html

Lot's of my data base is of course the vehicles I work on - quite a bit of Subies as where I live is a mecca for them and other like designs --- why don't you re-tool your search results for them --- am told you cannot even get the 2WD versions anymore and that's been for quite sometime - this is where it is heading and this is in keeping with the debate...

seems many of us are using examples from their own experiences,, that would explain Carlbs slip up on not knowing about honda's 4WD systems that are called just that ... degree or not - 37+ years allows you the ability to call someone out on not knowing just what the hell their talking about --- and if he happens to have a degree it really does make it all the sweeter ---- sometimes just can't beat that good ole field experience pilgrim (is pilgrim alright to say? sorry I seriously did not know your grandmother is/was a hillbilly and i did not mean to insult - that is my bad and i apologize - guess I was just feeling a little ornery today, but do check into it - was not directed at her)

[A.K. Boomer]

Dan - what is the proper spelling for the word "hillbilly"

being serious this time and when I go to use it next time I would like to get it right so as not to offend the real ones... thanks

[A.K. Boomer]

Some day even you guys will regret just how much you gave up --- when you get into your ride and want to misbehave just a little (in a totally rational manner) and your so restricted due to all the controls - then finally can't take it and by-pass a few - go out to have fun only to realize that the law is waiting for you at home, yes - the on-board brain box snitched on you and alerted the authorities ahead of time....

wonder if they will be tallying up the loss of life from all the people who just can't take it anymore and off themselves - or worse yet let it build and open up on a chucky cheese...

We will all find out I guess - cuz I concede, no contest - your gonna "win"

[danlb]

wonder if they will be tallying up the loss of life from all the people who just can't take it anymore and off themselves - or worse yet let it build and open up on a chucky cheese...

Please don't tell us that you are going to go on a mass murder spree just because you can't drive in an illegal manner any more. That's really, really sad. Hopefully the NSA is not watching this thread.

Oh... You have the word "hillbilly" spelled correctly. Good work!

Dan