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C.N.C IS IT A MUST HAVE FOR THE FUTURE?

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  • Thrud
    replied
    C. Tate:
    Giving a rat's ass about your work, always doing your best, and striving for personal improvment. Foreign concepts for most people. Nobody seems to read.

    It does not help when school boards dump trade classes for computer and other "hip" classes. We need better balancing and a change in outmoded teaching methods. It is the school boards that are to blame and should be made aware of this - pull the carpet out from under their feet!

    I also agree that the form of CNC we have now is too restrictive but to change that you need great machinists that are also great programmers (actual computer programming not G codes) to make the software more natural. Some of the new systems are better but still have a very long road of improvement ahead of them.

    And we will always have the Uber Machinists with us (they could just be a lot busier!). It amazes me what amateur machinists can do when no one has told them what they "can't do" - these are true artists of the form. I am not worried in the least - get your welding helmets out, the future looks bright!

    To CNC, or not to CNC, does it really matter? Do what works best for yourself always.

    [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 05-13-2002).]

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  • C. Tate
    replied
    I am not concerned about the CNC taking over 100% there is allways a place for the conventional machine. My concern is that the men who can pass along the knowledge and the techniques (the art and craftsmanship) of conventional use will be replaced by the CNC machinist who does not have these skills. I fear we are losing our most valuable resources faster than we are replacing them.

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  • chief
    replied
    Thrud, I agree, you must move with progress or be left behind. Kind of like the three types of people/those who make things happen/
    those who watch what happens/ those who wonder what happened. I speak merely from the hobby aspect, does every HSM need CNC, probably not but it is a wonderful tool if you desire to use it. Of course I'm sure your right there are those out there who will say all a real machinist needs is a set of files. take care.

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  • Thrud
    replied
    chief:
    Dip me in milk and roll me in flour - throw me on the fire.

    Thread the inside and outside of a tube. Another tube inside that one is threaded on the outside. A cap screws onto this monolithic piece and engages all 3 sets of threads. It had better turn on with no binding either. You can try for a million years and it cannot be done manually.

    However this is exactly what is possible with CNC - a 100% Teflon corrosive fluid transfer pump (no metals at all in it) made by a California company for the I.C. Fabrication industry does exactly this. Another company manufactures downhole pumps that use large gears - they no longer have to get them hobbed as they developed an inhouse program to use a CNC VMC to do the same job for considerably less money than before. Haas published both of these articles in their CNC news magazine.

    Just two examples of using your brain and modern technology to accomplish what no one could before - it is called "progress". So, you can embrace it as another tool at your disposal, or you can join all the "purist woodworkers" who bitch and moan about power tools ruining the industry.

    [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 05-12-2002).]

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  • chief
    replied
    From the hobby aspect you must ask yourself are you a machinist or computer geek. A comptent machinist is just as accurate as a CNC machine,repitition is another matter.
    These CNC,metric guys are nothing but communist troublemakers who seek to destroy
    the american way of life, make CNC and Metric use a hate crime! Seriously I like manual machining but enjoy CAD from drawing plans and prints.

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  • Thrud
    replied
    Toolmaker
    Hey, you won't see me throw out all my Starrett Inch tools just because I know metric is better! Look at shapers - almost extinct except for the home users that are "discovering" them again. The old orginal ornamental lathes are highly prized today by people that have caught that bug.

    It gets me all weepy eyed, all those poor tools out in the cold, rusting for no reason, with no warm shop to call home. We should never forget the past - they did amazing things with less than we have...

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  • Toolmaker Extrodinair
    replied
    I agree with most of the posts. but will CNC replace manuals in the home shop? I doubt it, reason being you can still run onesy and twosy faster in most cases. Also as many shop owners know there is always someone out there who will cutthroat you for a buck. Its always been that way and always will be. I for one hope I never see the day manuals are put out to pasture.

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  • KenS
    replied
    I hope that I croak before I see no way but to go with CNC at home. I love the old machines and more I love coaxing them to perform.

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  • Thrud
    replied
    Steve

    In world war 2 the ballistic computers on battleships were gear driven analog computers. Try to find one now. Since since landing on the moon, computers have evolved to the point were it takes supercomputers years to design the next generation chips. The Chip fab technology evolves to the next generation in a year or less now. The chip makers have trouble keeping up with the latest technologies.

    Doctors are discovering "Leaches & Maggots" - something primitive boneheads have known for centuries! It is good they remove their heads from their butts for air once in a while. They might miss something. And no, I am not bitter. And the current crop of automobiles are slightly better than the tin lizzie - more ostritches.

    Blue Chips
    Ever hear the term "Goose her tell she almost explodes then back off just a bit"? Applies to racing and making stuff. Time is money. You don't want to blow it up, but you want maximum production. This is where consulting insert performance curves can help you determine the most cost effective production method. Sometimes sacrificing inserts is a small price to pay compared to other factors - this is a cost/benefit statistical analysis.

    Well, I feel all better now and even stopped beating my sneaker on the podium. Soapbox surrendered.

    [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 05-11-2002).]

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  • docsteve66
    replied
    I have done trouble shooting on CNC programs, repaired the machines etc. In my home shop, I make what I can't buy. No models etc. I don't think a CNC machine would work for me cause i grab a odd shaped chunk of material, and cut away what I don't need and put it into use. Half the time, I am lucky to know a magnet will attract it, so it must be ferrous. CNC has gotta get better before the machine to back off cause its smoking , chattering, or digging in too fast.
    I suspect maintenace machinist will always need a good man with a good manual lathe in some corner.
    Steve

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  • bluechipps
    replied
    I cant see manual equiment ever dispearing.

    theres countless non machining related factories that have a lathe and mill in the maintnenance room. cheaper to make your own shaft for that 70 year old peice of equipment. then to order it from where ever.
    Its the only kind of exposure to maching i'd had untill taking the course that I'm currenty in

    as for the button pushing. im taking a cnc\mnual coarse and I see how easy it would be to train some math wiz to pragram and push buttons. which is good, but what happens the cabide insert is sparking like mad and he cant figure out why.

    far as can tell with my limited experience. cnc machining is still machining, and still requires the same same knowlage for the same problems as manual. Only you have a computer controlling the atuall cutting.


    ---
    i found thoes evil red sparks highly anoying. my lathe looked like a fireworks display, which attracted several instrutors to come to my rescue. Dam thoes red sparks are hot, like being stabbed with 100s of tiny needles.

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  • Thrud
    replied
    C. Tate:
    Yeah, every company gets more than their fair share of "monkey boys". People like that are too busy "pumping their own can" to learn from anyone. His loss, your gain.

    I am enthused at what the future holds for all metal working operations. I think we have a "brite & shiney" one to look forward to - just like stainless!

    Keep the faith brother.

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  • C. Tate
    replied
    Thrud,
    There certinly is a place in the home shop for CNC machines but machinists will not be left behind without them. I got fired up because of a person who used to work for me (quit on payday with no notice) who thought he was a machinist because he could program simple parts on a conversational control. You let the part start to chatter or some other problem arise and he came running to me which was fine except that when I told him what to do to fix the problem he would roll his eye and make faces to indicate he did not think I new what I was doing. He was not a machinist he was an advanced button pusher.

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  • metal mite
    replied
    Alistair
    Cnc has wonderful possibilities for the home shop.
    The way computer prices have dropped in the last year, cnc prices (for the homie) are bound to fall.
    It will require the same basic machining knowlege requirements, plus cad, or at least trig to calculate your points now done with dividers and a scale.
    At this point mastercam, and other computer programing systems are not economically possible for me.
    If you do this be ready to "Hit your head against the wall", at least in the beginning until you learn basic programing and operation of the system.
    A cnc will do EXACTLY what you tell it, right or wrong, and FAST.
    The error codes on a new system drive me nuts.
    I have and operate a Bridgeport boss 6 that is a great timesaver for some quantity and complex parts I do.
    This machine is truely a relic these days.
    Cutter comp allows you to program the part boundry on complex components. Mirror image and rotation allow programming a quadrent of a part only.
    I'd like to know more about that retrofit
    Ron talks about.
    Bridgeport no longer services those older machines, and electronics repairman are like plummers but worse.

    I don't think lack of cnc in the home shop will ever cause you to be "left behind".

    It's the craftsman not the machine that will be admired always.

    mite

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  • Thrud
    replied
    C. Tate:

    I agree completely. But who said the home market wants to do it the way it "used" to be done just because "we" learned that way? It will happen because CNC will let a person do something they could never do otherwise.

    Anyone with half a brain can be trained to run a job for production runs. Being a good a machinist should make you a better CNC operator. Knowing how to program it and being a machinist will set you apart from both groups. A superior toolmaker that can program and optimize shop machines is going to be the master machinist of the future. It is evolution - they will bring forth the next generation of the art.

    Just imagine what Bach or Beethoven could do today with a sequencer and synth! It boggles the imagination...

    [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 05-08-2002).]

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