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OT: UBoat 576 explored by mini-sub off coast of North Carolina

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  • OT: UBoat 576 explored by mini-sub off coast of North Carolina

    U-576 - located Aug, 2014, explored by mini-sub Aug, 2016

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-inside.html
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...html?tid=sm_tw
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/21/us/nor...-u-boat-wreck/



    U-352 located April, 1975, popular dive site (North Carolina)

    http://www.nc-wreckdiving.com/WRECKS/U352/U352.HTML
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-352

  • #2
    now that was a refreshing blast from the past.

    a web page that loads instantly, does not hang up, does not tell me that it can't load due to a long running script, does not show me ads for something I bought months ago, and does not have a link on the bottom saying "25 amazing facts about LaVerne & Shirley! #17 will shock you!" that leads to a page with 62 facts about LaVerne & Shirley ( each of which is utterly unremarkable ) that hangs up, tells me that it can't load due to a long running script, shows me ads for something I bought months ago, and has a link on the bottom saying "18 amazing facts about hemmorhoids! #9 will shock you!"...

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    • #3
      What's the point of wasting 7 years and millions of dollars looking for a sunken warship? Was anything useful accomplished?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by elf View Post
        What's the point of wasting 7 years and millions of dollars looking for a sunken warship? Was anything useful accomplished?
        Closure for all parties affected, plus it is really interesting. Worth millions? Was A-Rod worth millions for the Yankees?
        I'd like to see the inside and the state of the remains. To me that would be the most interesting.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by elf View Post
          What's the point of wasting 7 years and millions of dollars looking for a sunken warship? Was anything useful accomplished?
          -Two things:

          One, no money was "wasted". I don't know the particulars of the expedition, but unless they used taxpayer money (that is, outside of things like grants) any funds used were voluntarily paid. And unless they shovelled some of that money overboard to try and track the water currents or something, all that money was paid to someone or some company.

          That's the part people tend to forget. Yeah, we spent $4 billion on the Apollo program. But that money wasn't "wasted"- we didn't burn it directly as fuel. All those funds were paid to companies, contractors and employees. In the case of this sub salvage, money is paid out to the ship captains, for rental of the equipment, etc. You might not agree that the project in question is valid, and that's fine, but it's not 'wasted'.

          And two: To answer your question with a question, why do people climb Mt. Everest? Why race in NASCAR? Why bother playing basketball? Closer to home here, why do so many home-shop guys spend literally thousands of hours making miniature model steam engines that do absolutely nothing but sit on a shelf and look pretty?

          Why is exploring this warship somehow not worthwhile, but locating and exploring the Titanic was? Just thanks to the depth? The number of casualties? Is the warship less important because there were hundreds, if not thousands of similar subs sunk and lost, whereas the Titanic was just one? (Well, one out of three, all of which eventually sank. )

          Doc.
          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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          • #6
            wast·ed
            ˈwāstəd/
            adjective
            adjective: wasted

            1.
            used or expended carelessly, extravagantly, or to no purpose.

            None of the news stories detail any useful science being done or even any purpose for the search. All of the government agencies involved should have many more pressing issues to explore.

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            • #7
              Seems to me they could just let it lay. Belongs to the German government anyhow, and it's a grave site according to the UN.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

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              • #8
                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                Seems to me they could just let it lay. Belongs to the German government anyhow, and it's a grave site according to the UN.
                So they can only take pictures. Still though, it would be fun to postulate about the interior of the submarine... Is it flooded? What condition are the human remains? Did they drown? Suffocate? Poisioned by toxic gas from the batteries? Morbid but interesting.

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                • #9
                  Not too much "fun" to me to postulate about the worst and last day in someone else's life. Not even if they were doing something that may have richly deserved what happened, since they caused something similar to any number of others already.

                  The lot of them drowned if nothing else. They, or their friends had already roasted, drowned, or blown up numbers of other folks when tankers got torpedoed.

                  War is a time when sane folks have to act crazy for the duration. It is, literally, a God-damned mess. Let it lay. Dive on it if you must. I won't.

                  The only reason to see that thing is to remind folks that it really did happen, when in future people try to say history is just a bunch of lies.
                  1601

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

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                  • #10
                    Amen.

                    .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by elf View Post
                      [U]sed or expended carelessly, extravagantly, or to no purpose.
                      -So you're saying no one should spend money unless it's to advance Human Knowledge?

                      Why did we search for and dive on the Titanic? To try and see the hole the iceberg left? To what end would that have been? To develop better, stronger hulls? Or was it just to find the load of Byzanium?

                      Doc.
                      Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No, I'm saying that this particular search served no useful purpose. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise if you can document it.

                        Well, the search for the Titanic was financed by the US Navy (If you believe the National Geographic). The submersible developed for the search was used to find the U.S.S. Thresher and the U.S.S Scorpion first.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by elf View Post
                          No, I'm saying that this particular search served no useful purpose. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise if you can document it.
                          -As I understand it (I've only read the one linked article) there was no search. The wreck's location has been known, as has been a popular site to dive on, since 1975.

                          Also as I understand it, this current investigation isn't an attempt to right it, raise it or exhume it- it's simply a close examination with a modern ROV and modern, high-resolution cameras. The speculation about opening and or further internal investigation, as I understand it from the article, is at this point theoretical.

                          And again- "no purpose" to whom? You, near as i can tall, are reading the same newspaper articles I am. IE, articles short on facts and meant to be read quickly, with minimal attention to detail. I can think of at least two reasons- and fairly important ones- that they might be closely investigating it:

                          One, in conjunction with the German government, they may be looking into the recovery of any potential human remains for burial. Why is that important? Why do we, in the US, still, to this day, finance the search for US soldiers remains in Vietnam?

                          And two, it's shallow enough for civilians to dive on, and relatively near to shore. It was also a fully functional warship when it sank, meaning it can and probably does still contain anything from several thousand gallons of bunker fuel, to upwards of a ton of high explosives.

                          Are any of those things still a danger? Perhaps that's what we're trying to find out. Just because the article didn't state an express purpose, and you can't think of a valid reason, doesn't mean there isn't one. In my opinion, even if all they did was document it with high-res video, that's more than enough reason for me.

                          Doc.
                          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            calling something a "waste" is a judgment; it is a function of paradigm, but does your voice matter? One might consider paying a pitcher millions a waste, but really unless you are the one doing the spending or its your money, who gives a crap what you think? (I think its a waste too.....any of you care?)

                            Point being if its not your money, stfu, because, well, its not your money. So who's money was this? If publicly funded and you're a tax payer I think you have a right to be upset by the expenditure.
                            Last edited by Mcgyver; 09-06-2016, 09:18 AM.
                            .

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                            • #15
                              But plenty other people have a right to be upset about other expenditures.

                              Then quantity comes into the picture. How much does it cost to have a small ship stay stationary over the site and send down a mini-sub for a few days ? As much as a few nuclear bombs that never get used ? As much as sending a few planes over to Syria to kill some locals. As much as sending missions to other planets ?

                              Oh, but planetary knowledge is valuable ! Well, maybe some think investigations in the name of history are interesting too.

                              My point is that it doesn't cost a fortune, that there is a safety argument, and there is a human interest and a historical perspective argument for doing this. Let them get on with it.
                              Richard

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