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Spindel Bearings / Total Loss Oil System Question

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  • Spindel Bearings / Total Loss Oil System Question

    I have a 26 year old ENCO mill. I use the recommended spindle oil and fill the two cups each time I go out to do any machining. I cant recall the oil right this moment, but it is made by Mobile and is lighter weight and is light gold in color. Shortly after filling the cups and turning on the machine, I start to get a lot of oil dripping out from around the spindle. I understand it is a total loss system, but should it loose the oil that quickly?

    I am also wondering if/when I should think about replacing any of the bearings in the spindle. The spindle seems to be working well, so I am not trying to diagnose any current issues. I would just like to know what I should be looking for if they do start to wear out.

    Thank you!

  • #2
    Do the oil cups have packing that in them that would meter out the oil more slowly?
    Last edited by TGTool; 09-10-2016, 11:42 PM.
    .
    "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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    • #3
      The oil cups on the side of your mill are for back-gears and the quill.

      Back gears need a heavier oil.


      Last edited by Andre3127; 09-11-2016, 10:02 PM.

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      • #4
        There is a wick in both of the cups. The oil I have been using in each of the cups is Mobile Velocite Number 6 Spindle Oil. I have used way oil in the past. Rarely lower the quill, so filling the cup with oil every time I use the machine is probably over kill and why most of it seems to end up on the vice and the table. Does the oil every get to the spindle bearings???

        How about the back gears, what oil should I use? I see where the guy in the video uses way oil, but will it get to where it needs to go? Is Velocite Number 6 too thin for those gears?

        What about the gears in the head. I have lubriplate. Should I use it or does that hold metal particles from the gears wearing and cause more hard?
        Last edited by Guncraft; 09-11-2016, 05:45 AM.

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        • #5
          My BP does the same thing when I add the recommended spindle oil to the big cup on the right side of the head. I don't even fill the cup and it seems that what ever I do put in there ends up dripping out the bottom of the quill. I think that oiler is for the bearings and it is wicked to the bearing with a pipe cleaner. When I lower the quill it's also wet with oil so perhaps it oils both, but the dripping isn't uncommon.

          JL.....................

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          • #6
            What oil then for the back gears? Is Vactra 2 way oil sufficient for those gears? What about the gears that are located under the idler wheel (if that is the correct name)? The sit down in the head below the two pulley trees. There seems to be an amount of oil that pools there a bit. Should those be greased??

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Andre3127
              Oil you put in the cups do not go to the spindle bearings. These angular contact taper roller bearings are greased for their expected service life. Any oil going inside the quill would wash out the grease.

              M-head and older machines (R, T, cherrying etc. heads) DO use spindle oil INSIDE the quill to lubricate the spindle bearings, which are angular contact ball.
              That is not true. A very small number of BP machines were made for the woodworking industry with sealed bearings. The rest are full loss. SOME aftermarket bearing tout using grease, but that is not how the head is designed. On a BP head the cup on the RIGHT side of the lower section has a wick that drops spindle oil onto a felt washer in the quill above the 6206 top bearing cover. Oil then migrates down to the spindle bearings and is lost though the bottom. If your felt washer is distorted or missing, or the wick is shot, expect oil to flow more rapidly.

              On a step pulley head the quill is lubricated by way oil flow down from the upper section. On a 2J (varispeed) the front cup lubricates the quill - use way oil for that, not spindle oil. That oil also is "lost" to the bottom.
              Last edited by lakeside53; 09-11-2016, 05:05 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Guncraft View Post
                What oil then for the back gears? Is Vactra 2 way oil sufficient for those gears? What about the gears that are located under the idler wheel (if that is the correct name)? The sit down in the head below the two pulley trees. There seems to be an amount of oil that pools there a bit. Should those be greased??
                Yes, Vactra 2 is fine.

                On the 2J head (varispeed) you also need to open "port A" (hex screw) on the left side and insert lubriplate or whatever light grease occasionally.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
                  That is not true. A very small number of BP machines were made for the woodworking industry with sealed bearings. The rest are full loss. SOME aftermarket bearing tout using grease, but that is not how the head is designed. On a BP head the cup on the RIGHT side of the lower section has a wick that drops spindle oil onto a felt washer in the quill above the 6206 top bearing cover. Oil then migrates down to the spindle bearings and is lost though the bottom. If your felt washer is distorted or missing, or the wick is shot, expect oil to flow more rapidly.

                  On a step pulley head the quill is lubricated by way oil flow down from the upper section. On a 2J (varispeed) the front cup lubricates the quill - use way oil for that, not spindle oil. That oil also is "lost" to the bottom.
                  Doing some extra research, and wondering how I missed that, you are right. The spindle bearings are lubricated with oil. My mistake.

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                  • #10
                    I just caught a video where a company was rebuilding a BP spindle. The two bearings that were replaced had a bit of grease packed in them and they were not sealed.

                    The top cup on my step-pully mill directly feeds the oil to the bull gear. So, I am guessing that the gears all get oil splashed around them and I do not need any grease. (I assume, unless I am wrong about this.) I called ENCO and though their poorly written manual calls for Vactra 2 for all oiling, the tech said to use the Velocite 6 for the spindle. So, the Vactra 2 should probably cling to the gears better than the Velocite 6.

                    How do you determine if the wicks are bad? Both are present in the cups. Both look like a synthetic yarn of some kind.

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                    • #11
                      Hi,

                      If they leak like a sieve, replace.

                      Dalee
                      If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dalee100 View Post
                        Hi,

                        If they leak like a sieve, replace.

                        Dalee
                        Dalee, I assume you are talking about the bearings. My question is from looking at the bearing and the obvious space around the ball bearings when they are touching each other, how would they not leak rather easily?

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                        • #13
                          No.. the wicks.

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                          • #14
                            Hi,

                            Yep the wicks.
                            If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

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                            • #15
                              Oh ok, I'm with you now. Thank you!

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