Fire in and and recall of Samsung Galaxy Note7 mobilephones

[EddyCurr]

bobslab, a Southwest Airlines flt from Louisville to Baltimore a week ago had an incident where a replacement GN7 device began smoldering. There are several other credible instances of other replacement devices having lit up in some fashion, too. I am unsure how frequently lithium cigarettes self-immolate, but suspect it is at a lower rate than the GN7.

I, for one, am glad to see the measures imposed. I do not think for a moment that transportation authority decisions are being influenced by device competitors.

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[EddyCurr]

I didn't care much for Apple until I started writing software for them and learned to appreciate the way they do things.


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As in pay well?

Sent from my 2010 iPad Ver 1.0 using iOS 5.1.1 in between frequent, random crashes and in spite of bog slow performance

[danlb]

I am unsure how frequently lithium cigarettes self-immolate, but suspect it is at a lower rate than the GN7.

Actually, E-cigs have a bad reputation for failure. There are hundreds of e-cig models that are powered by lithium batteries. Some have great battery protection circuits, some are cheap crap. There are videos online of e-cigs catching fire in user's pockets. It's been on the news too. The problem is that each E-cig maker only makes a small volume and they are not easily identified like a cell phone is.

If one in 1,000,000 fails it's a pretty low failure rate. If 24 of the same brand fail nationwide it's a national disaster, even if 24 million are in use.

Dan

[dave_r]

Whilst banning air travel for these phones is laudable, it would seem to the phone isn't the problem, it would appear that the problem is the lithium (or whatever technology in use these days) battery, even the Dreamliner has suffered battery problems, I seem to remember them being grounded by the air authorities due to batteries catching fire?
I would see no problem sending a galaxy 7 by air if the culprit was not installed, I.e. battery?
It would seem that whilst these batteries can provide the power density needed for modern electronics that they are getting or got as close to the point where size is so compact that available materials are stretched to the limit.
I've heared of lithium batteries failing spectacularly in a range of products from aeroplanes to electronic cigarettes, the latter exploding in the users pocket, are they banned on aircraft, I suspect they should be.
I wouldent be suprised if samsungs competitors did a bit of lobbying to get them banned myself
I'd be in favour of only carrying things with lithium batteries in some kind of sealed enclosure in aircraft, if indeed they don't already.
Mark

Nope, most rechargeable devices, particularly ones with limited volume available for the battery, use lithium-based (there are a couple of types of lithium batteries) batteries, as they have significantly higher power per unit volume than other common types such as ni-cad or lead-acid.

The downside is that if the battery fails, that extra power in that volume naturally causes a bigger problem.

There are special regulations for shipping products with lithium-based batteries, and even for travellers with them in their luggage (particularly if they have extra batteries).

Having the phones banned from airlines isn't really a big deal, relative to the general recall of all of the GN7 phones (both original and "fixed/replacement" ones).

[J Tiers]

It "SEEMS" like a rare event, that should not be an issue.

Far more vehicles quit working on the road per million every day, and there is no outcry. There are probably more vehicle fires per day per million, with no outcry as well. There are definitely more traffic deaths per day than that, but while there may be an outcry, there is no banning of cars.

Things like this are often not rationally decided, or they may be a risk vs reward issue. People naturally feel uncomfortable with a device that IS KNOWN TO unpredictably become an incendiary device, and will be sitting on their bedside table while they sleep. Or may be in their pocket or purse.

If the thing is in your pocket when it (almost literally) "bursts" into flames, what do you do? You can;t really reach in and pull it out, unless you want more burns that you already are receiving. You will have to disrobe, wherever you happen to be, removing whatever article of clothing has the burning 'phone in it.

You are going to get burned, the only question is how badly. That risk is one that most people would prefer not to run. It's not common, but it is random, nothing can be done to reduce the risk, and the consequences are unpleasant enough that it isn't really tolerable.

The damage potential is enough that the odds of it happening are to some extent irrelevant, especially when there is no way to predict which one may do it, nor any way to prevent it through "proper maintenance", skillful use, etc.

There are many more deaths from traffic accidents, as noted. But one has, in most cases, options to reduce that risk; don't drive drunk, pay attention to the road, don't speed, or "hill jump", etc, etc. People feel, with some justification, that they can avoid those causes.

[Seastar]

I use a Samsung S6 and have for a couple of years with no problems.
For many personal reasons I prefer an Android phone. This is being typed on an iPad so I am not an Apple basher.
I was about to buy an S7 for my wife when all of this started. Now I don't know what to buy to replace her old HTC phone.
I have an experimental airplane in which I installed a lithium-iron-phosphate battery that has worked very well for a year. It's under the pilots seat so a fire would be disastrous.
There are lots of those batteries in small experimental airplanes and I have not heard of any incidents.
Some lithium technologies are better (safer) than others. Li-Fe-Po is one of those.
I think the Samsung problem is the fault of the battery manufacturer whoever that is.
I am sure that Samsung will cure the problem quickly.
Bill

[EddyCurr]

An interesting aspect raised by someone elsewhere is the matter of how the inventory of original and repaired Galaxy Note 7's are being transported now.

As noted above, there are special procedures for air transport of good lithium batteries and products containing them. In the case of the GN7, it may be the case that their batteries are considered defective or potentially so. If that is the situation, I wonder whether cargo couriers now decline to carry the Samsung GN7 by air?

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[EddyCurr]

I have an experimental airplane in which I installed a lithium-iron-phosphate battery that has worked very well for a year. It's under the pilot's seat, so a fire would be disastrous.
There are lots of those batteries in small experimental airplanes and I have not heard of any incidents.

What size/capacity of battery does the application require?

I've understood that a rule-of-thumb is that Lithium batteries come in at 1/3 the wgt of a lead-acid for similar performance.

I will suppose that as this is an experimental, it might be powered by anything from a 500cc twin to a 2500 cc flat four. But even if powered by a 7.5L V8 w/ some compression, a 45lb 500-650 CCA lead acid would be adequate to handle start/run chores.

How important is 30 lbs (diff between 15 lbs for Li and 45 for PB) in an experimental aircraft when the trade-off might contribute to a disastrous outcome?

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[Juiceclone]

What really puzzles me about this whole situation is that Samsung is unable to duplicate and identify the problem. They, and others, have been mfg devices with LI batteries for some time and have never experienced this serious level of catastrophic failure. I would bet there is something being supplied to Samsung related to this that contains an unidentified "problem". Take that thought wherever u want !!

[Seastar]

Eddy
The aircraft is a CarbonCub SS.
See here:

https://www.cubcrafters.com

It is powered by a 180 HP 340 Cubic inch clone of a Lycoming O-320 engine.
It is stoked to 340 CI with a bit higher compression.
The engine is built by Titan Engines.
The original lead acid battery would barely start the engine and the Lithium battery spins it easily.
It is also about 1/3 the weight.
Bill

[Seastar]

My airplane battery has nothing to do with Samsungs problems with the S7.
The only point of my post was to point out that there are safe Lithiumn batteries.
Bill

[oldtiffie]

What really puzzles me about this whole situation is that Samsung is unable to duplicate and identify the problem. They, and others, have been mfg devices with LI batteries for some time and have never experienced this serious level of catastrophic failure. I would bet there is something being supplied to Samsung related to this that contains an unidentified "problem". Take that thought wherever u want !!

The main problem I have with the Samsung batteries in regard to credibility is that is seems that Samsung has sent out (again) "repaired" "replacement" phones in which it is presumed that the "new" batteries were "up to spec" - and even some of them caught fire (again?) as well.

I have nothing against Samsung as they make some very nice durable stuff at reasonable prices.

I would imagine that the consequences of a fire (both when the phone was being used or carried on the person would worry a lot of women - and so it should - the more so if they were driving a car or their children had such a Samsung phone.

Men may be a bit more "macho" about such things.

Lose the trust in a product by women and you have lost the "women and kids" and "parents" market and giver the "decision buying power" they have and you've lost a big slice of the market - for quite a while.

[PStechPaul]

You can get "Lipo-Safe" bags for lithium batteries that would also hold a smart phone or other small device. I got a couple of them for some LiPo batteries I bought a while ago:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1114__85__Batteries_Accessories-Lipo_Safe_Bags.html

Only $2.49 for 230 x 140 mm:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__90273__HobbyKing_174_8482_Fire_Retardant_LiPoly_Battery_Bag_Flat_230x140mm_1pc_.html

Seems like a good idea for storing a lithium powered device, or while carrying it. Maybe airlines could have such bags available for those who want to carry on such a device, and also require them for checked baggage.

A test:

More tests:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oNQdSUJi68

[danlb]

What really puzzles me about this whole situation is that Samsung is unable to duplicate and identify the problem.

I'm not surprised. There were about 2.5 million Note 7s sold. Of that number, only a small fraction have failed. When they fail, they self destruct.

If it's a physical problem, it might be hard to find once the phone is melted.

Dan

[oldtiffie]

Is this the last post on this subject? It came in today and I thought it might be of interest to some here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3130189/mobile/samsung-discontinues-galaxy-note7-after-battery-debacle.html?idg_eid=b8ea39a52a6aef1351398d9264ae4450&token=%23tk.PCW_nlt_pcw_bestof_html_2016-10-14&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Best%20of%20PCWorld%202016-10-14&utm_term=pcw_bestof_html#tk.PCW_nlt_pcw_bestof_html_2016-10-14