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Fire in and and recall of Samsung Galaxy Note7 mobilephones

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  • #46
    Curious about the bags....

    Didn't see any tests by a NRTL such as UL, etc. Probably there is no standard to even test a bag to, as of yet.

    Given that, it's all basically hot air about "flame retardant" and "containing the fire". Interesting data would be the maximum temperature of bag surface, or of the exiting fumes. Sounds like a place for the "cheesecloth test".
    CNC machines only go through the motions

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    • #47
      Originally posted by oldtiffie View Post
      Is this the last post on this subject? It came in today and I thought it might be of interest to some here:
      I hope it's not the last word. Since they will have 2 million examples to work with and examine, I would hope that they take the time to finish the investigation.

      One of the techniques that came to mind was the idea that they could put a few thousand at a time through heat tests, another batch through charging tests, vibration tests, compression, etc. Eventually they might find a common factor that causes the problem. Any time you can reliably trigger a problem it becomes much easier to find a fix.

      Dan
      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

      Location: SF East Bay.

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      • #48
        It's hard to find a common factor when some of the phones went up in smoke just sitting unused. Some on night stands during the night; some on kitchen counters; some in pockets. They didn't have to be charging or in use to burn although some did burn during charging. I'd be more inclined to think that there's a software situation included in there somewhere. Perhaps apps left running or the Dose function added to Android Marshmallow. Or it could be just a battery failure due to manufacturing problems. Samsung first tried a software patch to reduce the battery charge to 60-65% and some still went up in smoke. That's what prompted the all-out recall. It's going to be like finding a needle in a haystack.

        I was about to buy an S7 for my wife when all of this started. Now I don't know what to buy to replace her old HTC phone.
        As already mentioned; don't confuse the problem with the Note 7 with other phones of the same series. The S7 and S7 Edge do NOT have the problem and have not been recalled.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by CCWKen View Post
          It's hard to find a common factor when some of the phones went up in smoke just sitting unused. Some on night stands during the night; some on kitchen counters; some in pockets. They didn't have to be charging or in use to burn although some did burn during charging.
          That's a valid point. I'd think that we'd have instances of phones burning up in storage at the factories and in stores if there was not some aggravating factor. Those factors could be software * or physical (vibration/sitting on it, etc) or electrical (charger) among others.

          It's not unreasonable to think that being sat on all day might cause damage that manifests many hours later.

          Dan
          * Since my Samsung Galaxy Tab S was upgraded to marshmallow last week the battery monitoring has been wacky. I use it while plugged to a 10 watt charger and it complains that the game I'm playing is using more power than the charger can provide. The battery level drops over time. Then when I un-plug it, turn it off and charge it for 10 minutes it's back to 100%. Wacky.
          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

          Location: SF East Bay.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by danlb View Post
            That's a valid point. I'd think that we'd have instances of phones burning up in storage at the factories and in stores if there was not some aggravating factor. ....

            Dan
            * Since my Samsung Galaxy Tab S was upgraded to marshmallow last week the battery monitoring has been wacky. I use it while plugged to a 10 watt charger and it complains that the game I'm playing is using more power than the charger can provide. The battery level drops over time. Then when I un-plug it, turn it off and charge it for 10 minutes it's back to 100%. Wacky.
            The typical unit with a battery is not charged when it arrives. I'd suspect that is deliberate, who wants a ton of lithium batteries in a container to all "go off" at once? Most of the lithium batteries I have either replaced, or received in the unit have had either no charge (monitor shows no lights, unit will not work) or have at most shown no light or one light, and the device was on the verge of shutdown. I suppose it could be that they discharged in shipment, of course. After all they had to be tested somehow.

            But it is typical for the instructions to start with having you charge the battery for some set minimum time. And a good bit of that time is often not really "charge" time, but time spent trickle charging the cells to a voltage where it is safe to even start a charge. I recently had a Dell battery that simply sat there and took no charge for hours.

            Luckily, I knew (it was not mine) that it had sat unused for several months, so I was prepared for the initializing time. After it reached a state where all the cells were up to a suitable voltage, it began accepting a charge, and works fine. If it had been taken to someone like the dorks at MicroCenter, they would likely have sold the owner a new battery, if my experience with them is anything to go by.

            in any case, an uncharged lithium battery is not a threat, there is no stored energy. Likely most carriers would prefer all batteries to be shipped uncharged, if they were able to ensure it. So units sitting in warehouses may be considerably less likely to do anything untoward than units on the nightstand, which have been recently used, and therefore presumably have some amount of stored energy.

            As for the GTS..............

            many units DO get confused, and the best way to fix it is to actually run the battery down, assuming it is allowed. Sometimes doing a soft reset, if the phone allows that, will let you run it down farther. Presumably the update messed up either the battery state saved, or possibly the a-h used and charged total, so it was confused.

            Most of those battery monitor systems require at least a couple charge-discharge cycles to become reasonably accurate, so you HAVE to run it down. Usually the instructions for first use make mention of it. You may be effectively in an equivalent state to "first use", so you will need to find some way to discharge to the point of having the battery shut off to protect itself.
            CNC machines only go through the motions

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            • #51
              My experiences differ from Jerry's. He gets batteries that are discharged on receipt. I don't.

              I've purchased several Samsung phones and tablets for myself and family; about 8 or 9 that I recall. 100% of them were largely charged when I received them. Even the replacement batteries that I've bought in sealed clamshell packaging have had some level of charge. I'm a gadget freak. I buy lot's of things with high tech batteries. Even the $25 drones that I bought at costco had a full charge (based on flight time) when I bought them.

              This jives with the information that I see on the web that states Li-Ion and Lipo should not be stored at less than 50% charge. According to those sources they are damaged if they reach low states of charge. Many sources say to store Li-Ion at 80% charge.

              Based on my experience, there's a good chance that Samsung will find the problem.


              Dan
              At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

              Location: SF East Bay.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by danlb View Post
                My experiences differ from Jerry's. He gets batteries that are discharged on receipt. I don't.

                ........
                This jives with the information that I see on the web that states Li-Ion and Lipo should not be stored at less than 50% charge. According to those sources they are damaged if they reach low states of charge. Many sources say to store Li-Ion at 80% charge.

                Based on my experience, there's a good chance that Samsung will find the problem.


                Dan
                Winbook from Microcenter...... charge state not operating the computer when opened and fired up. Instructions said to charge for a number of hours and use until it shut off a couple times before normal operation. IIRC it mentioned that the unit might need to be charged in order to work.

                Other Winbooks purchased for work projects were similar, needed charged but may have been able to operate for a few minutes as-received.

                Samsung phone.... charge state lowbut working, had been on charger when set up at Verizon, so no telling exactly what the charge state was, but it obviously was not charge to any 80%.

                Replacement battery for laptop. Battery not operating computer. Instructions indicated to charge fully before using, and to run battery down fully before recharging a couple times.

                I do not recall ever having a lithium (or any other rechargeable) battery arrive fully charged, other than gel cell types, which normally have been pretty well charged because they have to be.

                The "damage" from storing at low charge states may be a matter of lifetime, and not necessarily "gonna burn up". It is in the nature of batteries to discharge, with or without a load on them, so the makers KNOW they will reach that state. It clearly is not a matter that if it ever is discharged it dies or burns. Some types cannot be left that way, like lead acid, which lose capacity.

                Two different laptop computer batteries besides above, have been in a state of complete discharge to where their battery monitor would not light up, and they would apparently not even accept a charge. After several hours of charge time, they began to do a normal charge, and thereafter worked fine with normal operating time before recharge.

                ANY phone from a carrier will be charged to some degree when bought. It has to be, or they could not turn it on and load it with your info.
                CNC machines only go through the motions

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                  I do not recall ever having a lithium (or any other rechargeable) battery arrive fully charged, other than gel cell types, which normally have been pretty well charged because they have to be.
                  Looks like we agree on that part. Your statements make me wonder; Are you addressing LiPo, Li-ION or LiFePO batteries? They are as different from each other as carbon piles are from lead acid.

                  Every rechargeable unit that you buy will have the instructions "charge before using" simply because there is some internal discharge and it may have been on the shelf a long, long time. I bought a bluetooth speaker with back up battery last month. It said "charge before using." I plugged it in and it was topped off in 15 minutes and I used it for playing music throughout the wedding and reception.

                  There are some very good sources of information on the web that tell you all about the care and handling of batteries. They are worth reading.

                  Dan
                  At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                  Location: SF East Bay.

                  Comment

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