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  • Home made Penetrating Oil

    I know that there has been some discussion on HSM about penetrating oils. I just read this on Jon at Homemade Tools and wondered if any of you have tried this.Homemade Penetrating Oil

    [I]For All of you Mechanic's and Self doer’s out there.
    Penetrating Oil - interesting
    This was in one of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters
    Homemade Penetrating Oil
    For All of you Mechanic's and Self doer’s out there.
    Penetrating Oil - interesting
    This was in one of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters

    Here is an interesting finding on Penetrating Oils
    Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and
    bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then
    tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety
    of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.
    This is what they came up with:
    Nothing: 516 lbs
    WD-40: 238 lbs;
    PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
    Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
    Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
    (ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.

    This last “shop brew” of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat
    out the commercially prepared products costing far more.


    I looked up Acetone and you can buy a gallon from Home Depot for about $14, that would be pretty inexpensive if it works
    _____________________________________________

    I would rather have tools that I never use, than not have a tool I need.
    Oregon Coast

  • #2
    The transmission fluid and acetone mixture received some attention a few weeks ago in J Tiers thread about discovering Holloway House lemon oil could suffice in a pinch

    Some reports mentioned ATF/acetone failing to mix well, prompting speculation about the migration to synthetic oil from mineral base stock playing a factor and a couple of tests .

    An enlightening read from JT's perspective that penetrants are often right at hand.

    .
    Last edited by EddyCurr; 10-22-2016, 06:44 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      This subject has been thrashed pretty thoroughly more than once. Some go with the results printed, some don't. Some point out that the oil/acetone mix is just a temporary admixture - that is, the oil is not dissolved in the acetone it's just separated in smaller particles by shaking and separates again into distinct liquids on standing. And again, some think this indicates a problem and some don't. Further, there's some claim that ATF oils have changed formulation over the years so that what might have worked years ago no longer works with current products. I don't know if there's any consensus on that either.

      I read the article, noted the results they got and made up some of the stuff myself. I didn't actually compare results with competitors. It didn't work any miracles for me, but that might have been the specific parts or it might have been my stuff since mine separated too.

      As Smoky Yunick noted years ago about engine additives, for every one you'll find some mechanics who swear by it and others who swear at it. Personally I now regret that I didn't buy some of Farty Arties Nut Buster (motto: "Let Artie bust your nuts for you") when I had the chance. I don't know if it would have worked any better but I'd probably smile more often with frozen parts.
      .
      "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

      Comment


      • #4
        Acetone has very low surface tension, thus penetrates very very well . It also is water nur free ( anhydrous if fresh) thus may shrink some of the corrosion if the corrosion is swelled due to moisture ,thus reducing the torque to loosen the bolts. Heat from a torch does similar things as well as causing the parts to enlarge and drives off the water
        Previous comments were correct in that acetone and like generally don't mix well. The addition of a squirt of dish soap to the acetone, and shaken before adding the oil will often cause the oil to mix (emulsify). Acetone is extremely flammable, may dissolve paint in a heart beat, and if a static spark results may cause a Weiner roast. Tom

        Comment


        • #5
          This has been around awhile. At least eight years.

          http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...enetrating-Oil

          Comment


          • #6
            Subsequent to the thread on lemon oil as penetrant, I found more...

            I have been washing parts on a small engine, and have found that the solvent and oil mix is a pretty good penetrating oil itself. Mix of lacquer thinner, methylene chloride, paint deglosser, maybe even acetone. Oils are everything you can imagine, engine gunk, sludge, old engine oil, whatever. No clue what's in there.

            But it loosens up whatever it is put on.

            The heck with "Ed's red", we've got "Jerry's junk oil".
            CNC machines only go through the motions

            Comment


            • #7
              Google Ed's RED. ATF + Mineral Sprits + Kerosene + Acetone, in equal parts. I have been using it for years as both a gun cleaner and penetrating oil. I generally leave out the acetone when I make up a batch. Acetone does not like plastic and does not store as well as the other ingredients. For a gun oil, I use ATF and Kerosene.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the info guys. I thought about a search on the site, but then I said, these guy need something to cuss and discuss, so ask. I looked at the wife's finger nail polish remover and it is Acetone, so it won't cost much to give it a try. She won't miss a little of it.
                _____________________________________________

                I would rather have tools that I never use, than not have a tool I need.
                Oregon Coast

                Comment


                • #9
                  The usual "ed's red" as reported is just ATF and acetone.

                  Makes FAR more sense to use an oil, like ATF, and solvents such as mineral spirits and kerosene. At least they should mix better.

                  Leave out the acetone, or put in some stronger oily solvent such as toluene, or maybe just lacquer remover, if you want to. The acetone MAY be "carried" by the mineral spirits etc, which should dissolve both ATF and acetone.
                  CNC machines only go through the motions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i can report with certainity that any atf i have come across in the 20 past years wll readilly dissolve in nitro-thinner. it does not emulsify and never separates. the viscosity is the lowest out there. does it reduce torque by 90%? i dont think so, but it works. its available everywhere, at least over here.

                    nitro-thinner:

                    http://www.fuessener-modellbaublaett...erdünnung.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yep,it should. That stuff has everything in it.

                      Xylol, toluol, naptha, acetone etc. The acetone will dissolve in any of the other stuff, and so should the ATF.

                      Bottom line is any reasonably light oil, thinned and "carried" by a solvent that will wick into tight spaces, will work to at least some extent as a penetrating oil to loosen stuck items, at least if they are not actually galled. Nothing in my experience has ever managed to loosen galled stainless steel nuts and bolts.
                      CNC machines only go through the motions

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lugnut View Post
                        ..................................

                        Here is an interesting finding on Penetrating Oils
                        Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and
                        bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then
                        tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety
                        of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.

                        .............................
                        And if you read the entire article the author pointed out that his "experiment" used one kind of bolt, one kind of nut, one level of torque, one level of rust and therefore should not be taken as anything remotely like a conclusive test of which of those products worked better.

                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          AND, to make it even worse, IIRC there were only a few bolts used, so the "sample" was not even 20 bolts per test material. To do it properly would take probably several hundred bolts per test substance, exposed to varying environments. I'd want to see 50 or 100 per substance and environment, at least.

                          Given some info or assumption on the "population" of rusted bolts, one could calculate the required number per set of conditions.
                          CNC machines only go through the motions

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            When the original formula was available I always found PluGas worked better than most things, it definitely smelled strongly of Acetone and was extremely falmable!

                            - Nick
                            If you benefit from the Dunning-Kruger Effect you may not even know it ;-)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                              The usual "ed's red" as reported is just ATF and acetone.
                              Actually, the original recipe has ATF, kerosene, mineral spirits and acetone. Also, listed as optional was anhydrous lanolin.

                              The original formulation was to replicate (as close as possible) a gun oil/cleaner formulation from the old Frankford arsenal. The original formula for this is in "Hatcher's Notebook".

                              See link for a somewhat early write up and directions by C.E. "Ed" Harris.
                              http://www.vkhgc.ca/documents/Ed%20gun%20cleaner.pdf

                              I have been mixing this up since the early '90s ... even before it became popular in shooting circles. I used to shoot High Power Rifle matches, and shooting 2-3 times a week meant I needed a cleaner/oil in bulk. As I mentioned before, I generally do not add the acetone. Especially these days when I use it more in the shop and do not shoot near as much.

                              As much as I like and use Ed's Red, I do not necessarily put any credence in that "study" ... I agree take it with a grain of salt. There is nothing saying that the one nut (with the Ed's Red) might have came off just as easily with water.

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