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  • OT plumbing issue

    Our shop has a septic field (which has been cleared recently) and we also have a high water table at times. After a couple days of steady rain, which we do get here, there can be standing water in the fields. The toilet is on the slab, which is at ground level. When the water level is high, the toilet doesn't want to flush out.

    What we want to do now is raise the toilet. The ceiling is 12 ft, and to make best use of the space we will build a new floor a little more than four feet higher than the slab. The new washroom will be a little over seven feet high, which is what it is now, and we'll be able to use the space under it for storage. The question is how to make the interface to the existing floor flange.

    Because it's a concrete floor and I haven't had the toilet up, I don't know if there's any room between the drain pipe and the concrete. If I knew that there was room, I could see cutting the flange off from the inside, then adding a joiner along with the right length of pipe to reach the new floor. I'd like to be able to interface to the existing flange, and of course be sure of a perfect seal. Suggestions?
    I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

  • #2
    I see at least two ways to go - no pun intended. One is get a piece of plate, preferably stainless, cut a 3 inch hole in it and weld on a 3" piece of stainless pipe. Drill two holes in the plate the same spacing as the bottom of the toilet. Get a new wax ring and bolt the plate on where the toilet was. Fernco on to a piece of pvc or abs and extend up.
    The other way, and what I would do, is bust up the concrete and cut off the floor flange. Then if it is plastic pipe glue a coupling on and extend up. if it is cast iron snap it off then fernco and plastic pipe up.
    Either way whatever structure you are building up try to make sure it does not wobble and is as solid as possible.

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    • #3
      If your leach field is under water, all that will happen if you raise it is maybe leakage of fairly raw sewage out of the cleanout hole, it won't work better. It WILL flush, though, for what that is worth

      That's one reason why many places in the US mandate a raised bed system or other special system in that sort of area. High water table, impermeable soil, etc, etc. Some places are just not suited to a regular non-powered septic system.

      A relative's house in Ohio had that forced on them. Raised berm, pumps, etc. Can't use the pot unless the power is on.
      1601

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan

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      • #4
        Pump based systems have holding tanks for digestion and often a separate pump tank. Mine has a 1500 gal primary, 1000 gallon secondary and a 350 gallon pump tank - plenty of headroom in the pump tank for typical power outages.

        Darryl : Your drain field location is bad. Is it even a legal? Surely it has a large holding/digestion tank before the gray water is sent out to the drain field? If so... the reason your toilet is backing up is that the tank can't drain out and/or it's getting back filled with ground water. What you are proposing might make it look like it's working, but it isn't, won't be "sanitary" and you might end up blocking your field.
        Last edited by lakeside53; 11-11-2016, 10:46 PM.

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        • #5
          The whole system would be getting back filled with groundwater, which would then drain as the water table went down. Whether it's working or not - I have to assume it is because there's no smell, no sewage backup, and no problem flushing when the ground is not saturated. It was dug up and renewed last year, though I wasn't there when this was done so I don't know any of the particulars.

          Physics says you can't flush uphill, and that's all I will be able to address. My main concern is getting a leak-proof junction made to the hole in the floor.

          I can abandon the whole project, but that means that we'll need a porta potty on site for about three months in total on two separate times of the year. That does smell and aside from being an eyesore it's not a very friendly thing to have to use.
          I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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          • #6
            Had a similar problem at our shop years ago. We bought a pump tank and intercepted the sewer line between the tank and the lateral distribution box. The pump outlet connected to the distribution box. This way we only pumped the water after the solids settled out.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
              Pump based systems have holding tanks for digestion and often a separate pump tank. Mine has a 1500 gal primary, 1000 gallon secondary and a 350 gallon pump tank - plenty of headroom in the pump tank for typical power outages.
              I thought so also, but apparently it had to be pumped uphill. In any case, things did not work right with no power, that I know. The system was installed prior to selling the property of deceased family members. When anyone was down there, power to the system had to be "on" in order to flush. Normally it was off, as nobody was living there.

              Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
              Darryl : Your drain field location is bad. Is it even a legal? ....... What you are proposing might make it look like it's working, but it isn't, won't be "sanitary" and you might end up blocking your field.
              He's in Canada, maybe out in what we would call unincorporated area, and whatever testing was done may have been done when water was down. I cannot see it being approved in the US by any county health dept if they saw the system when water was up.

              If he is in flat country, there may BE no "good" area anywhere on the property.
              Last edited by J Tiers; 11-12-2016, 01:37 AM.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Comment


              • #8
                Flat country- that is pretty much it. This is a farm and there's no high or low ground around for miles. This shop has been here for at least 35 years and it's in agricultural reserve. In Canada, also. We have a couple of seasons when water is high- the rest of the time it's no problem. For a new shop build here today, I'm sure that you would be forced to connect to city sewer. We are grandfathered with the system we have, and there is no money to upgrade. The owner here is scheduled to go in for a quadruple bypass in a month or so, and that's the last thing he needs to spend money on at this time.
                I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

                Comment


                • #9
                  Darryl
                  Two PVC closet flanges a piece of pipe and one rubber gasket
                  7' of 4" will hold a couple flushes
                  George from Conyers Ga.
                  Remember
                  The early bird gets the worm, BUT it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by George Seal View Post
                    Darryl
                    Two PVC closet flanges a piece of pipe and one rubber gasket
                    7' of 4" will hold a couple flushes

                    WOW I can just picture the ladder leaning against the toilet and the mindset while upon the throne!!

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                    • #11
                      Not having your feet touch the ground would definatly shorten break time...
                      Joe

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                      • #12
                        Me thinks you also might end up with a turd accumulation problemo,,, sewer pipe is set at a proper angle so the water don't outrun the turds leaving them high and dry, your situation is drastically different but still might present some anomalies - it will be like the turds will be getting pushed off the edge of a cliff, then falling down into a "slop bowl" of water at the bottom stopping all momentum - probably immediately after hitting a 90 with not a whole lot of flow from the water cause it just wants to "stack" on top of the stagnant stuff,,, the turds will not want to migrate - they will accumulate, not good...

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                        • #13
                          Saniflo makes a macerating toilet that grinds everything so it will go thru a 3/4" pipe & pump up to 100' that may help. Also thet're made in Canada & have great customer service.
                          "Let me recommend the best medicine in the
                          world: a long journey, at a mild season, through a pleasant
                          country, in easy stages."
                          ~ James Madison

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by George Seal View Post
                            Darryl
                            Two PVC closet flanges a piece of pipe and one rubber gasket
                            7' of 4" will hold a couple flushes
                            But it won't really hold anything other then accumulating waste... the level will simply go down to the water table and waste will tend to be pushed up the existing [assumed] vent pipe.

                            Darryl - if you do this scheme, you will need the roof vent pipe AT THE NEW toilet location, not down where it currently is. If not you stand good chance of suction pulling the water out of the bowl or gasses belching up. "Grandfathered" drain field of not, or not.. follow the plumbing codes. They are one of the reasons we live longer now.
                            Last edited by lakeside53; 11-12-2016, 01:05 PM.

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