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Surely this is not beyond the possibility of most reasonably efficient engineers?

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  • Surely this is not beyond the possibility of most reasonably efficient engineers?

    PHEW when I saw most of these I couldn't help wonder why so expensive, after all their not platinum? even the tool holders at over a hundred bucks a piece US dollars is
    stretching credibility a tad too much. AQs I have said many times on here I am just and always will be a learner however keen and quick (Hopefully ) to p8ick up some good tips along the way. While I balk loudly at these prices I would definitely try to make these myself. It or they are not that complicated. Surely not? Alistair



    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suburban-T...oAAOxy0zhTOc9u
    Please excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

  • #2
    Hi,

    Suburban - There's your problem.................

    That style of adjustable fly cutter has been around for ages. There is a reason that design isn't popular. Love the video, you can hear the chirps as it spins. That is the sound of an unhappy insert rubbing. And I can see the chatter marks in the finish.

    Dalee
    If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

    Comment


    • #3
      It is about 10x heavier and more rigid and bigger and 10x better made than most similar, lighter tools.
      That accounts for the diff in cost, omho...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Alistair Hosie View Post
        PHEW when I saw most of these I couldn't help wonder why so expensive
        Well it isn't because they're ("there" in their [or they're? ;-)] form of English) employing anyone literate to pen their ad, one who for instance might know the difference between Your (belonging to You) and You're (contraction of "You Are")

        - Nick
        If you benefit from the Dunning-Kruger Effect you may not even know it ;-)

        Comment


        • #5
          ok $600. Assume a professional charges $50/hour labor (I have no idea actually YMMV). That means that if the professional makes the tool in 12 hours, he breaks even from a pure cost perspective. But there are opportunity costs; the machine tools needed are out of action while the setups for these tools are in place. This means the job has to be finished to a certain phase before the machines become available for other uses. While one is making this tool, a paying job isn't getting done.

          If the tool is purchased instead, $600 is spent. But the necessary job can be completed in short order (that's why we need the tool, after all) and customer satisfaction is delivered sooner. The shop's workflow is not disrupted. Finally, in the USA, the $600 is a business expense and is taxed at a different rate, so it isn't quite as expensive in reality.

          For the home shop machinist, the $600 may be outrageous. For the profession shop, the $600 may be outrageous but worth it.

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          • #6
            Everything Suburban sells is expensive. Usually good stuff though.
            The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

            Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

            Southwestern Ontario. Canada

            Comment


            • #7
              Firstly it is larger than most of us would need.

              Originally posted by loose nut View Post
              Everything Suburban sells is expensive. Usually good stuff though.
              IF I needed to flycut one plate that needed an 11" long holder at home I would make one for myself. BUT it would not be hardened, made from ' Known" material and the insert would probably just end up being silver soldered to the end of the bar. I would make it " Work " and get the job done. However, it is unlikely that I would ever need the tool again. I expect that the tool offered is of known material, that some of it, at least, is hardened and tempered and perhaps the seats are ground, or at least cnc cut to standard sizes, and that replacement parts are available.It is probably intended for full time commercial use, and likely to outlast the machines it is used in barring a mighty crash, at which time replacement parts would be simply ordered and fitted. Alastair, for me to have that tool in my toolbox it would be akin to having a Rolls to drive me to the postbox, If I were running a limo service then the Rolls would be just what was needed. Best wishes, have fun , work safe, David Powell.

              Comment


              • #8
                Same concept as my cutter i built except allot more beefier --- .040" depth of cut in steel is pretty good id say,

                it's very expensive but like others said most of suburbans stuff is.

                the bar slots are not a huge selling point for me - if you watch the second vid they are just sloppy loose when he tips the cutter over you can see the bar drop a great deal - so no "crash preventative" here - if the screws come loose whilst cutting you will still have hell to pay, only thing is might hold the bar from sliding out the end on one of the examples as it has a stop...

                The thing is - is these cutters are great to build yourself in the first place, basically all operations are simple and can be done on a manual mill, just make sure you put your set screws on the right side, they did, iv seen a few examples on here where people had them on the load side, not a good idea as load forces can cause an indention where the screw contacts the bar resulting in lost pressures and then loosening...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by greystone View Post
                  It is about 10x heavier and more rigid and bigger and 10x better made than most similar, lighter tools.
                  That accounts for the diff in cost, omho...
                  Hi,

                  And it still works no better. Just listen to it cut in the video, that's one ticked off insert. I'm amazed they didn't blow the edge clean off it before the end of the cut. Insert life will be horribly short.

                  The cost is totally in the Suburban name and no where else.

                  Tony Ennis

                  ok $600. Assume a professional charges $50/hour labor (I have no idea actually YMMV). That means that if the professional makes the tool in 12 hours, he breaks even from a pure cost perspective. But there are opportunity costs; the machine tools needed are out of action while the setups for these tools are in place. This means the job has to be finished to a certain phase before the machines become available for other uses. While one is making this tool, a paying job isn't getting done.
                  It's not quite that simple. Shops do this kind of work in house a lot. It's a matter of balancing work flow against what and who is available to do any particular job. This is why I need to work so closely with the production manager to run the shop floor. I can fit a lot of odd/off book jobs in very easily. A simple matter of timing. It just takes malice aforethought to do so. And if you need it "right now", then your time and workflow management is crap because you aren't looking ahead.

                  Few shops are willing to pay that kind of money for a tool that they can make in house for less than a 1/4 of that price. Suburban won't sell many at that price.

                  Dalee
                  If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dalee100 View Post
                    Hi,

                    And it still works no better. Just listen to it cut in the video, that's one ticked off insert. I'm amazed they didn't blow the edge clean off it before the end of the cut. Insert life will be horribly short.


                    Dalee
                    Actually no pun intended but it's a "cut above" the typical 45 degree cutters,,, keeping your tooling as close to the head as possible reduces chatter, also --- 90 degree's means every bit of tool bar extension is just that - tool bar extension - so less bar is used - again not only keeping the bar as close to the head as possible but keeping it as short as possible too.

                    the only real reason to use the old style cutters was they basically used HSS and this means you would already have the clearance angle for the HSS flat bar --- but inserts make this all obsolete - and as far as longevity of the insert? just flipped mine about a month ago after something like 5 years of intermittent use - they rule...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dalee100 View Post
                      And it still works no better. Just listen to it cut in the video, that's one ticked off insert. I'm amazed they didn't blow the edge clean off it before the end of the cut. Insert life will be horribly short.
                      Wow, one video example of using the tool and you are a f'king expert on the tool you don't have?

                      Like you said, it didn't break the tool, so what is it that you are arguing?
                      Amount of experience is in direct proportion to the value of broken equipment.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jaakko Fagerlund View Post
                        Wow, one video example of using the tool and you are a f'king expert on the tool you don't have?

                        Like you said, it didn't break the tool, so what is it that you are arguing?
                        Do you happen to be the proud owner of one?
                        in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                        • #13
                          I can't see any advantage of a fly cutter over a shell mill. Especially as a 5 insert shell mill is 1/5th the cost of this 1 insert fly cutter.
                          Location- Rugby, Warwickshire. UK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                            Do you happen to be the proud owner of one?
                            He doesn't need to be to give the tool the benefit of the doubt. The video doesn't sound so bad to me, my old ears only hear entry/exit noises. As for price, there's a lot of steel there and if it is a good alloy (no doubt it is) and heat-treated, a home-shop guy will have serious change wrapped up in material and heat-treat. It is also nicely finished and includes extra screws, something other makers don't do.
                            Southwest Utah

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                            • #15
                              All I heard was entry and cutting noises, no real squealing. No close up of the "mirror" finish though, so who knows?

                              Originally posted by Mark Rand View Post
                              I can't see any advantage of a fly cutter over a shell mill. Especially as a 5 insert shell mill is 1/5th the cost of this 1 insert fly cutter.
                              Size... Do a wide piece with one sweep, no overlaps.

                              Stick that long one out, though and there is some serious unbalance. Might affect "dynamic tram" on a turret mill.
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

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