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OT: Anti-seize on sparkplugs?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    Extensively - meaning "most all"

    would have to go with them being the hacks - if someone is that insecure about their own judgement skills for things like radiator bolts or alternator mount bolts or power steering pump bolts or fender bolts or headlight mount bolts all which have a pitch and size and hardening rating that one has encountered hundreds of thousands of times before and are the type of fasteners that are holding about 90% of the vehicle together in the lesser critical area's yet these guys are still running to a book to look them up then i would have to say something is "off" there - way off,,,
    if all the sudden they can't find their torque wrench and go into a fetal tuck cowering in their shop because of it because they do not know how to tighten a spark plug --- run - run like hell!!! lol

    these guys are not mechanics ---- they are brain dead idiots that should not even be under the hood of a car to check the oil level... my two cents...
    Like I said before...you are full of yourself and this foolish rant of yours proves it.
    Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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    • #62
      Not a foolish rant ---- for everyone out there reading - if your mechanic is charging you by the hour and takes three times the amount of time to do the job mostly due to him having to run and look up every fasteners value and then adjust his torque wrench then you really not only need to look at him as being the stupid one...

      once again - it's either a ploy to bilk you out of more funds - or they are incompetent in their own judgement of "simple things"

      and if they are incompetent within that - then how can you trust them with the plethora of detailed decision making processes that go on underneath the hood (or better put should go on underneath the hood)


      Last but not least - me being full of myself is the only way someone like you could decipher this - told you that before - anybody worth a pinch of salt is going to look that way to you, because you simply do not have a good understanding in this area.......
      and not my job to change that - that's up to you.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Arcane View Post
        Like I said before...you are full of yourself and this foolish rant of yours proves it.
        Don't feed the trolls- it only encourages them.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by CarlByrns View Post
          Don't feed the trolls- it only encourages them.
          not just funny - hilarious (munch munch munch )

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          • #65
            http://www.matweb.com/search/datashe...c7777d9e10be5b

            look at Yield and UTS vs temperature reported above.

            Yes, I have had spark plugs tear out the Al alloy threads too.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by wombat2go View Post
              http://www.matweb.com/search/datashe...c7777d9e10be5b

              look at Yield and UTS vs temperature reported above.

              Yes, I have had spark plugs tear out the Al alloy threads too.
              That's what I said earlier
              The UTS of Ali increases as temperature decreases unlike steel which is (to the detriment of many a ship) the other way round aka the ductile brittle transition. Severely depressed by phos as found out at the Kaiser yards building Liberty ships oh and the titanic too, I got to analyse bits of both, the phos in the Titanic was 032-035, making the steel mostly brittle at 5 degrees, virtually no bending just good old fashioned cracking when clobbered with an iceberg, the Liberty ships did the same on the polar route, none of the ones solely in the Pacific failed catastrophically by the same mechanism, breaking in two.
              Mark
              It's always an urge to heat things that are stuck, I've seen a mechanic with a lamp on a stuck plug many times, no suprise same mechanic was asking for 14mm helicoils shortly after,
              Last edited by boslab; 12-06-2016, 12:16 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                Not a foolish rant ---- for everyone out there reading - if your mechanic is charging you by the hour and takes three times the amount of time to do the job mostly due to him having to run and look up every fasteners value and then adjust his torque wrench then you really not only need to look at him as being the stupid one...

                once again - it's either a ploy to bilk you out of more funds - or they are incompetent in their own judgement of "simple things"

                and if they are incompetent within that - then how can you trust them with the plethora of detailed decision making processes that go on underneath the hood (or better put should go on underneath the hood)


                Last but not least - me being full of myself is the only way someone like you could decipher this - told you that before - anybody worth a pinch of salt is going to look that way to you, because you simply do not have a good understanding in this area.......
                and not my job to change that - that's up to you.
                I see your point, but......................

                1) He could buy a nicer torque wrench and just read the dial for each fastener....no adjustments... Those "click type" wrenches are for the birds (in production).....

                2) Most places seem to charge the book rate, and beat on the tech if he doesn't beat the book. Charging more for being slow and clumsy is not a good practice.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

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                • #68
                  Interesting info and we all know cylinder heads are not made from 6061-T6 but probably more or less representative of the relationship in strength vs. temperature of other aluminum alloys. I remember vaguely what alloy is commonly used in the casting of OEM engine components but it escapes me at present

                  However as much as I advocate doing plug changes on cold aluminum heads vs hot, the chart doesn't really show much difference in ultimate tensile strength or yield strength at the temperatures encountered while doing a plug change.
                  Not really that much variation in strength between 75°F and 212°f. Anyone that does a plug change on a head that's at 700° is going to deal with more issues than strength alone!
                  I've always followed the recommended procedure and it has served me well, but I still do not fully understand the science of why.
                  Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                  Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                  Location: British Columbia

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                  • #69
                    It occurred to me, and has probably been stated by someone in amongst this thread that lube on the plug may well cause you to be able to tighten the plug much more than if it were dry, all the stripped ones I've seen strip at the effective diameter, there's always the root of the thread left in the hole, truncated by shearing the thread off, I can even remember unscrewing the sheared thread off the spark plug like a little coil spring that I found on the bench in a garage, it would appear thedamagehad already occurred when the plug was put in, not when it was removed, removal just finished it off!
                    Mark

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                    • #70
                      Most of the striped plug holes I haves seen was on Ford 4.6 and 5.4. #7 is the worst and most common. Certain body styles seem to allow water to drip and it would work it's way past coil pack seal and get in. Very often though plugs holes are striped due to not starting in hole properly, so it's not always an issue of over tightening or lack of anti-seize.

                      Knuckle heads with air tools or these knew portable impacts cause alot of problems and its the guy that comes behind him that inherited his problem. Sometimes a piece of hose pushed on spark plug end can work wonders for starting a pain in the ass plug in a bad spot. I am just a mechanic so what the hell do I know?
                      Last edited by Jmay; 12-06-2016, 11:58 AM.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        I see your point, but......................

                        1) He could buy a nicer torque wrench and just read the dial for each fastener....no adjustments... Those "click type" wrenches are for the birds (in production).....
                        Ha, we both are quickly becoming the minority in what we consider to be a "nicer torque wrench"
                        but im in full agreement that they are - as long as it's a quality unit to begin with - if the smaller indicator beam ever gets tweaked just bend it back to zero again, make sure it does not contact anything in operation, nothing to go wrong - nothing to get out of calibration - totally dependable - it's main drawback is you have to be able to view it straight on while torquing and sometimes this can be a problem,,, for there a well calibrated click torque wrench can do a good job, I know guys who send theirs out all the time (and pay quite a bit of dinero) when they have a perfectly fine beam/bar style in their box - if they also have a 12 point 15mm socket they actually own all the tools needed to calibrate the click wrench themselves as a 12 point fits not only a hex but a square - keep in mind the angle of contact is different and not as strong, so you don't want to get into the real big numbers because you still only have 2/3rds the contact points on the socket, and it's not a perfect fit,
                        you can do the same with a 12 point 11mm on a 3/8 drive, although that can be a very tight fit depending on the socket and torque wrench head, have a buddy counteract one of the wrenches making sure he uses the pivot hand correctly and counters the head while you do the same- set the click type on a low # and see if it matches the other - then test in medium range and then somewhat high but remember not as strong as a regular socket on a hex... if you need high torque calibration you should find a way to go square to square, if you have one of those strap type oil filter wrenches some are designed with thick wall internal square tubing that you can insert a half inch drive - just cut off enough for both torque wrenches... really does not hurt the strap wrench as most have one very long side to them and you can always use an extension with them

                        2) Most places seem to charge the book rate, and beat on the tech if he doesn't beat the book. Charging more for being slow and clumsy is not a good practice.
                        yeah - not good practice - if he's up against the book and their on him about that and yet still has no clue on how to tighten a simple bolt and has to look up "fan shroud specs" then that just means he's going to be skimping in other area to meet or beat flat rate, - also could be a problem when the people are waiting - Just saying a good mechanic should have a good feel for the elasticity of materials and know what certain "not as critical"fasteners need to be tightened accordingly, he/she should not take a chance on real critical components like anything to do with front end work or engine and transmission running components - and I am in agreement that if they simply do not have any ability at all then yes they should use a torque wrench for most everything, there are motorcyclist out there that don't really need "debris" flying off of peoples cars on a two way two lane - but that's a sad way for a mechanic to go through life - and also speaks of a major deficiency for what should be a standard in his/her work,
                        like a life guard that does not know how to swim and has to rely on some kind of battery operated boogie board...

                        seriously - find another occupation...

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Jmay View Post

                          Knuckle heads with air tools or these knew portable impacts cause alot of problems and its the guy that comes behind him that inherited his problem. Sometimes a piece of hose pushed on spark plug end can work wonders for starting a pain in the ass plug in a bad spot. I am just a mechanic so what the hell do I know?
                          I think what burns my arss more than anything is guys taking "power tools" to the heads and blocks of engines to remove gasket material ---- even with todays three-piece steel gaskets with the thin membrane sealing layer --- extra critical to not have any "abrupt" deviations as they simply will NOT adapt, yet guys so lazy they will not take a refined scraper and take a little time with the small amount of sealing material that's left behind from the last gasket - no - they want to rap out some kind of abrasive wheel at 30,000 RPM's and dig into an aluminum block with it,,, assholes....

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                            I think what burns my arss more than anything is guys taking "power tools" to the heads and blocks of engines to remove gasket material ---- even with todays three-piece steel gaskets with the thin membrane sealing layer --- extra critical to not have any "abrupt" deviations as they simply will NOT adapt, yet guys so lazy they will not take a refined scraper and take a little time with the small amount of sealing material that's left behind from the last gasket - no - they want to rap out some kind of abrasive wheel at 30,000 RPM's and dig into an aluminum block with it,,, assholes....
                            6 years ago I moved to fleet maintenance department of a Large municipality for the pension. I was blown away by the crazy, horrific, and lazy crap I seen guys do to these units with no accountability what so ever. I have seen guys do things to machines and power plants that I am embarrassed to say I seen!

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                            • #74
                              Not to worry, I've seen the same in hospitals!
                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                              Location: British Columbia

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                              • #75
                                Oh hospitals - well nothing important going on there right

                                even in honda school back when I was a kid - the instructor is "showing" us how to tighten back up a lower end for it's main bearings - on certain models the mains will wallow out the case - so just hit both sides of the case that cup the outer race of the mains OD and deform the aluminum with a sharp punch - this will raise the metal enough to ensure a proper fit lol - yeah that otta do it and those little bitty high spots are going to hold for a real long time no assembling with loc-tite stud and bearing mount or anything (not that that would "make it right") just bolt it back together and send it out the door --- a factory trained honda instructor - geeze even as a kid I cried foul,,, got in "trouble" for not agreeing with his "technique"....

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