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[idiots, everywhere] How NOT to hire an employee...

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  • [idiots, everywhere] How NOT to hire an employee...

    So while I currently have a job, in this employment market I am always looking at my next move. All it takes is a minor tick in a stock-price and the company lays everyone off, or they hire an ivy-league bean-counter who decides that a 3-month temp is the same as a skilled tradesperson...

    Anyway, I got a hot lead for a company looking to hire a person who does exactly what I do, with the qualifications I have and the level of experience that I have. I reached out to the manager through Linkedin, we spoke and he forwarded my resume to HR. He told me "when I'm done with you on the phone contact HR, here is her direct number. Tell her that you are coming in on the 28th and she'll finalize everything over the phone with you.

    So I called. She picks up the phone "Oh you're the direct applicant? I can't say I appreciate you bypassing the proper hiring process. That's not how we do things here. Let me review your resume. Ok... You have ____ and ____? You are WAY over qualified to work here. I don't think you'll be a good fit despite what Bob thinks. I'm the HR manager here and I have over a decade of experience matching people to positions. We have procedures here for a reason and I expect EVERYONE to follow them. What was your name again? Well, Max, here's the thing. I'm not processing your application because you didn't follow procedure. Fill out an application and wait in line line everyone else. IF I have an opening that matches your excessive qualifications I might call you. Until then, do not contact our company again or I will have legal look into the situation."

    Called the hiring manager back... told him what happened... he said "I'll call you right back... she really threatened you with legal, hunh?"

    Hour later HR calls back, different voice on the phone "Hi this is ___ with That Company You Applied At. Hiring Manager Bob has reviewed your resume and would like to meet with you on the 28th, 9am."


    This is going to be interesting -- I've run into this before. Usually companies with over-zealous HR departments don't sit well with me. Too often I see situations where a bean-counter makes the hiring decision -- hire based on which person gets the most tax credits. I have a feeling I'm walking into a crossfire between the hiring manager and the bean-counters... hiring manager needs someone who can do what I do but HR doesn't want to spend the money on the right employee. That's what I take away from the temper-tantrum regarding "proper hiring procedure" and "overqualified..."

  • #2
    If you were in a stable pretty-good job now, I would not drop everything and try the new gig.

    But...it doesn't sound like your current gig is that awesome or stable to start with.

    Is the money better?

    If you have enough skills, and getting another job is no big deal in your world, it might be fun to show the HR lady how to play the internal politics game.

    You want to play it easy? We'll play it easy.

    You want to play it hard? We'll play it hard.


    If you really dislike confrontation and it will make you sleep bad at night, go somewhere else...

    Comment


    • #3
      HR and Safety Managers are all alike, always trying to justify their positions.
      Sole proprietor of Acme Buggy Whips Ltd.
      Specialty products for beating dead horses.

      Comment


      • #4
        I bet the resulting conversation between the hiring manager and the HR lady was interesting.
        Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

        Comment


        • #5
          Tails do need to be periodically reminded that, even if they perform an important or useful function, they still are the tail and not the dog.

          Or maybe it was a test to see if you really are interested/motivated/etc to get the job? (I didn't say it was a _good_ test :-)


          A bit more seriously ...
          It's possible that the HR lady was a halfwit, working hard to descend to quarter-wit level.

          It's also possible that if BobTheHiringManager called the HR person to say "I met this guy, Max, on Linked in and he's absolutely perfect ... I _want_ him, can you set up the interviews? Thanks, your great!" None of this would have happened. That it did happen might be a sign ... maybe there's open warfare between various departments at the company? Maybe BobTheHiringManager is a loose cannon who browbeats people to get his way, maybe ... well, you can guess other possibilities.

          Keep your eyes and ears open

          And good luck with the interview.

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          • #6
            Sounds like a company with a lot of internal drama, good luck!
            You going to need three hands working for an employer like that. Two to point and one to cover your ass.
            Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
            Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

            Location: British Columbia

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            • #7
              When you show up on the 28th, tell them you are there for the opening in HR.

              ME

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              • #8
                I've has carious problems like that in the past... as the hiring manager. At one point I had over 50 open positions and HR would routinely send me filtered candidate resumes for consideration... then I noticed all I got was those with a Degree and not many matches. I questioned this and the response was - "we have so many applicants we need to reduce the herd with some cut method; i.e. no degree".. reject". I called BS on that. First, we has just joined the other idiot companies doing the same thing... and I was looking for experience, not education. I found HR was pretty much incapable of reading the nuances of experience, so I asked for their selections AND separately ALL the rejects. Big stack of paper, but I could process a resume to a "maybe" in less then a minute while on the phone doing something else, and pass it back to HR for for formal checking. It worked, and HR learned I wasn't the enemy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by michigan doug View Post
                  If you were in a stable pretty-good job now, I would not drop everything and try the new gig.

                  But...it doesn't sound like your current gig is that awesome or stable to start with.
                  Company has a long and storied history of laying people off if the stock-price twitches. We also periodically get managers who ax entire sections, outsource the damnedest things and re-arrange/consolidate/refocus entire lines at random. It's an automotive/personal-water-craft manufacturer with a foreign name. It's funny how they preach loyalty and dedication and personal this and that under the Japanese flag, yet everyone in Lincoln has worked her at least twice in their lives.

                  Is the money better?
                  Yes.

                  If you have enough skills, and getting another job is no big deal in your world, it might be fun to show the HR lady how to play the internal politics game.

                  You want to play it easy? We'll play it easy.

                  You want to play it hard? We'll play it hard.
                  I'm going in and I'm laying it out, these are the skills you posted you need these are the skills I have these are my qualifications and this is my experience. I have a job, I'm not desperate, I can always take a call-center job (HA!) or find something else to do. Take what I am offering on my terms (insurance, 401K, longevity) or keep looking.

                  Normally I wouldn't do that but the HR confrontation really irked me this time, more than usual. Smacks of someone power-tripping.

                  We'll have to leave Nebraska soon there are some cultural failings out here that make career progression impossible. Didn't realize what we had walked into until we had bought the house... but it's a nice neighborhood and while I'd hate to walk away at a loss, there is no point in sticking around where there are zero career prospects.


                  That brings up an interesting point... if/when we do move I'll have to look into the local culture and make sure I'm not repeating prior mistakes. Originally we moved out here to work for a major molding operation, but the culture is such here that outsiders are not considered in any way... and it doesn't matter if the management hires you for (this job) you are starting out as a general labor period the end. Senior molding technician, process engineer, material handler... Management will hand you a title tell you your office/cube is over there... you show up you're expected to general-labor until such time the other workers "approve" of you and allow you to progress. Management seems to quite powerless out here in that regard.

                  Got hired as a die-setter that was down a die-setter, presses were sitting idle and customers were threatening to leave. Show up to work with my tools first day, foreman tells me "grab a broom and clean the warehouse." I ended up walking three days later after being told to mow the lawn. I told them I was hired as a die-setter, the foreman said "you have to earn that position here, you can't walk in off the street and take a job without earning it." Management disagreed, I disagreed, the foreman refused to relent... and so it goes.

                  Seems to be unique to this region -- there are jobs open but they go unfilled because of cultural "nonsense" like we keep running into. Female Companionship Unit (Who Must Be Obeyed) has run into it in her vocation as well.

                  If the job is an entry-level grunt-labor job advertise it as such. If it's a senior molding profession position, expecting a technician to "earn" his position while lines are down and production halted is not going to save your business.

                  And THAT is on top of the whole "summer job" issue. You have to be REAL careful applying for work, because what sounds like a career move is actually "summer labor." That means you get fired in September regardless of how long you've been there, any benefits earned or nonsense like that. Fired in September, then the company brings on the holiday temps. I just went through that with a job last year, I took a job in May, was let go along with everyone else second week of September. When I asked why I was told "summer job, time to bring the winter crew back onboard. See you next year!"

                  Back east, we didn't have nearly as many employment games -- it was just a question of no jobs and what few there were were all 90-day temp jobs. Kind of miss it!

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                  • #10
                    I found this at once amusing and depressing. (the HR foolishness, that is) And being retired, I am happy to not have to be in such a situation again (I hope).
                    Weston Bye - Author, The Mechatronist column, Digital Machinist magazine
                    ~Practitioner of the Electromechanical Arts~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tread carefully, the best defense is to lay low and not be noticed. Since the nuclear option was used just for you to get the interview, you will have a target on your head and the lady, if she's vindictive(most are), she'll be looking for any excuse to fire or discipline you down the road. I've seen similar things happen in aviation to friends of mine. I suggest you get her fired first, and go after her friends as well. Once they are fired, throw a bunch of nails in their driveways. Responses, particularly defensive ones need to be overly aggressive.

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                      • #12
                        Sounds a dangerous place to work, proceed with caution, being caught in personal wars is bad, losing your advocate, very very bad, if this guy goes (stranger things happen) you are following soon after
                        Treat with caution I'd say
                        Mark

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                        • #13
                          I agree HR is on a power trip. "Those that can, do; Those that can't go into HR" Sounds to me like CYA big time.

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                          • #14
                            Sounds to me like you are between the devil and the deep blue sea. There are some job interviews that I was oh so glad that they didn't even offer me anything. And there was one where I saw some of that internal division at the interview, but I was out of work and needed a job. I later regretted it.

                            I would look for another alternative and hope the present job remains until I find it.

                            PS: Most HR people are worse than lawyers.
                            Paul A.
                            SE Texas

                            And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                            You will find that it has discrete steps.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RB211 View Post
                              Tread carefully, the best defense is to lay low and not be noticed. Since the nuclear option was used just for you to get the interview, you will have a target on your head and the lady, if she's vindictive(most are), she'll be looking for any excuse to fire or discipline you down the road. I've seen similar things happen in aviation to friends of mine. I suggest you get her fired first, and go after her friends as well. Once they are fired, throw a bunch of nails in their driveways. Responses, particularly defensive ones need to be overly aggressive.
                              Agree, once interviewed directly with the hiring manager and department. After they decided to bring me on they sent me to HR, the people were very angry they were not involved in the candidate selection process. Most HR people have one or more advanced degrees and often can't understand why others are paid more than them. Max, you've definitely made an enemy at your new employer.

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