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Help with P&W 10" engine lathe

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  • #16
    Yeah, ask about the date in PM antiques section, someone may have a date for it, that rise and fall cross slide dates it way back.

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    • #17
      Got some more pictures. It appears that the spindle nose does not have a removable insert, though there is a lip inside. But I believe it's just a machining mark. The cross feed has a total movement range of about 2.75", but when you run out of range, there is a lock bolt on the back of the saddle (between the ways) that you can loosen and slide the entire cross slide.... Inconvenient, but workable.


      ^^change gears, every single one!


      ^^not sure what that is

      ^^or that, some sort of center? Doesn't fit anywhere

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      • #18

        ^^bracket of some sort?

        ^^have a bunch of these, I think they're sanding disc backing plates of sorts..... But the taper end doesn't fit into the spindle


        ^^gear cutter? Doesn't fit in my rails though... Unsure what is for, valuable?

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        • #19

          Acme threads always send me for a loop, but I believe that's 6tpi on the lead screw?


          ^^steady rest

          ^^another center of sorts? Again, doesn't fit anywhere on my lathe



          ^^And the lathe itself, with tail stock in place
          Last edited by foxmxrcer; 03-03-2017, 07:05 PM.

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          • #20
            Yep, that's 6TPI. So no easy gearing setup for YOU! But WOW! What a nice way to store the change gears. And get a'load o' that gearing chart! ! ! ! That's freakin' CLASSY!

            From the next set of pictures;

            Two axis deal with hole- Does it fit anything on the indexing shaft/gear cutter holder?

            Tail stock thingy. That's the sort used with indexing heads or vertical/horizontal rotary tables and such like. More of a milling machine thing.

            Bracket doohickey might be something that goes with the taper attachment I saw on the rear of the bed in a previous shot.



            The round discs look like they have tapers on the shaft. Does it fit the tail stock? Or by any chance do they fit into the hole in the two axis doomahickey? That might be a clue.

            The last thing that you called a gear cutter is more of a universal holder that would accept items with centers in the ends or taper fit arbors with items pressed into place where the arbor mounts between centers. There would be a center and drive plate that the side ways handle and sector arms control to index to any number of increments. The one you have is likely intended for use with smaller and lighter items since the mounting arrangements for it are rather sparse and it's all rather large and flexible looking when it comes to serious tooling. Of course back in the day more and lighter cuts were made to sneak up on sizes instead of hogging off great swaths of metal in one go like we do these days. So perhaps this was considered quite stout in its day.
            Chilliwack BC, Canada

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            • #21
              Originally posted by BCRider View Post
              Yep, that's 6TPI. So no easy gearing setup for YOU! But WOW! What a nice way to store the change gears. And get a'load o' that gearing chart! ! ! ! That's freakin' CLASSY!

              From the next set of pictures;

              Two axis deal with hole- Does it fit anything on the indexing shaft/gear cutter holder?

              Tail stock thingy. That's the sort used with indexing heads or vertical/horizontal rotary tables and such like. More of a milling machine thing.

              Bracket doohickey might be something that goes with the taper attachment I saw on the rear of the bed in a previous shot.



              The round discs look like they have tapers on the shaft. Does it fit the tail stock? Or by any chance do they fit into the hole in the two axis doomahickey? That might be a clue.

              The last thing that you called a gear cutter is more of a universal holder that would accept items with centers in the ends or taper fit arbors with items pressed into place where the arbor mounts between centers. There would be a center and drive plate that the side ways handle and sector arms control to index to any number of increments. The one you have is likely intended for use with smaller and lighter items since the mounting arrangements for it are rather sparse and it's all rather large and flexible looking when it comes to serious tooling. Of course back in the day more and lighter cuts were made to sneak up on sizes instead of hogging off great swaths of metal in one go like we do these days. So perhaps this was considered quite stout in its day.
              So, with a 6tpi lead screw I'm limited to just leaving the half nut engaged and shutting the lathe off/running it in reverse to cut threads?

              The 2 axis thing may be a separate part for it, but doesn't seem to attach to it.

              "Bracket doohickey" is not for the taper attachment. If you look at the rear of the cross slide, you'll see a hole. There is a square block with a pin that rides in the attachment, and you loosen that lock nut I was talking about on the saddle, so the cross slide "free floats", and follows the taper statement track. I'm missing the block with the pin, but can make one pretty easily.

              The discs are tapered, but do not fit in the tail stock. Tail stock is 2mt

              I'm confused about the use of the "universal holder", but will take your word for it... Probably not something I'd ever need to use.

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              • #22
                Unless someone has a better way I think that you are stuck with engage and leave alone. Other than perhaps multiples of 6.... maybe.... might have to be even multiples like 12, 24, 48. Not sure about odd multiples like 18, 30 or 36. Not that 30 or 36 are that useful.

                For cutting the 8TPI you will need a ratio of 8/6 in the train at some point. And that comes down to a 4:3 ratio to multiply the lead screw up by that much to get 8TPI.

                The discs may be something totally unrelated to what you have in that case. The lip and rough looking recess plus the tapered shank does not scream "sanding disc" to me at all.

                The indexing gizmo might be good for trading goods. And although I'm not calling it a gear cutter it could certainly be used for holding gears to be cut. It's not what I'd consider to be part of the lathe tooling though.
                Chilliwack BC, Canada

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                • #23
                  Most of your other parts appear to be from a tool and cutter grinder.

                  allan

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                  • #24
                    Hi there! I have a P&W 7 x 16 dead bed lathe. It is obviously smaller than yours, having a D1-2 mounting system. It came with about 55 collets, number sizes, but I will check the dimensions tomorrow. IF they are 5P size and you are interested, PM me.
                    Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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                    • #25
                      You can MAKE a thread dial. They are not hard to do

                      with 6 tpi, make it with a 24 tooth gear, no need for a very good gear, it's not critical*. A holder to mount to the carriage, and a dial with 8 marks on it, which you number every other one 1 to 4. A marked line on a surface next to the dial.

                      At that point, even threads, any mark. Odd threads, any numbered mark. "Half" threads (like 11 1/2 tpi) any even numbered mark. "quarter threads" same number.

                      So for 20 tpi, which is even, you can engage when any mark is at the line. For 13 tpi, when any numbered mark is at the line. For 11 1/2 tpi, when either the "2' or the "4" mark is at the line. For 4 1/4 tpi, always use the same number you started with, so if your first cut was with "1" on the line, you take all further cuts with "1" at the line.

                      * There is no force on the gear of the dial, so the only issue is matching the helix angle. And you can avoid that by using a fairly thin gear.

                      Here is a pic of the dial on a Southbend thread dial. SB has 8 tpi screw, so the gear is 32 tpi.

                      Last edited by J Tiers; 03-04-2017, 12:33 AM.
                      CNC machines only go through the motions.

                      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kitno455 View Post
                        Most of your other parts appear to be from a tool and cutter grinder.

                        allan
                        After some further research I would have to agree. They do look very similar. Thanks
                        Originally posted by Duffy View Post
                        Hi there! I have a P&W 7 x 16 dead bed lathe. It is obviously smaller than yours, having a D1-2 mounting system. It came with about 55 collets, number sizes, but I will check the dimensions tomorrow. IF they are 5P size and you are interested, PM me.
                        If they are, I would in fact be interested. Let me know if they are 5p!

                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        You can MAKE a thread dial. They are not hard to do

                        with 6 tpi, make it with a 24 tooth gear, no need for a very good gear, it's not critical*. A holder to mount to the carriage, and a dial with 8 marks on it, which you number every other one 1 to 4. A marked line on a surface next to the dial.

                        At that point, even threads, any mark. Odd threads, any numbered mark. "Half" threads (like 11 1/2 tpi) any even numbered mark. "quarter threads" same number.

                        So for 20 tpi, which is even, you can engage when any mark is at the line. For 13 tpi, when any numbered mark is at the line. For 11 1/2 tpi, when either the "2' or the "4" mark is at the line. For 4 1/4 tpi, always use the same number you started with, so if your first cut was with "1" on the line, you take all further cuts with "1" at the line.

                        * There is no force on the gear of the dial, so the only issue is matching the helix angle. And you can avoid that by using a fairly thin gear.

                        Here is a pic of the dial on a Southbend thread dial. SB has 8 tpi screw, so the gear is 32 tpi.

                        I was doing some research on that just a little bit ago actually. I'm trying to think if I have anything laying around the shop that I could use to make one. And also how to cut a gear, short of by hand. Thank you for the more personalized details though, I didn't get to the point in research of what tooth count I'd need.

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                        • #27
                          If the pivot for the thread dial is angled to match the helix of the lead screw, it can be a straight cut gear, that might be easier than fiddling with the angle of the teeth on the gear.

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                          • #28
                            I checked my collets and they are NOT 5P. They are shorter at 3", and have a 16 TPI thread and 1" OD.
                            Duffy, Gatineau, Quebec

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Duffy View Post
                              I checked my collets and they are NOT 5P. They are shorter at 3", and have a 16 TPI thread and 1" OD.
                              Bummer. Thanks for checking though!

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                              • #30
                                So, I'm not the greatest at math... So I did this all by taking measurements and (hopefully) "common sense".....

                                Lead screw is 6tpi, square cut thread. I need a 24 tooth gear for the chasing dial. My gear will be 1.35" total od, and 1.135" od to the root of the teeth. I'm going to use 1/8" plate steel so I can cut the gear by hand (drill holes at the root, and band saw the rest, the file to final fit).... Can anyone verify my measurements? Or at least confirm if I'm close?

                                Thanks

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