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Picture from a local scrap yard a few years ago

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  • Picture from a local scrap yard a few years ago

    I took this picture a several years ago when lots of shops were going bankrupt. There is a horizontal mill, a couple of radial drills, a forklift and assorted other stuff. Last time I visited there were no machine tools.

    OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

    THINK HARDER

    BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

    MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

  • #2
    sad!
    Definition: Boat, a hole in the water you throw money into!

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    • #3
      HEY!!! A little warning next time before displaying such graphic carnage.

      Comment


      • #4
        The price of scrap per ton went through the roof, and sometimes included the roof, heavy scrap, furnace size was nuts, I was in steelmaking then and some of the stuff weighed was mind boggling, brand new engines, unused worth more in tonnage than product, councils pulling up manhole covers replacing them with plastic and sending them in for scrap, I've seen 2 year old colchester lathes in a heap, beds up to 120", and worse they wouldent let me buy one!
        The had a nasty bit of kit to deal with machinery, a 15 ton steel ball dropped from a magnet crane repeatedly, nauseating to watch.
        Oddest thing I saw was bins of ancient hip joints (used) burnt finish, crazy
        Mark

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        • #5
          That the pits seeing working machines scrapped,after seeing that pic very happy I saved my Varnamo Mill.At auction I was standing beside scrap dealer that bought it for $35.00 then I bought it from him next day while other pieces were scrap yard bound. Sorry for posting another pic of this thing ,but makes me grin every time I use it!

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          • #6
            Yeah, at the height of the recession at a local shop auction the scrappers were out bidding the users on older non-CNC machinery. But, that's more reality than anything else, the fact is manual and non-CNC machinery doesn't have great value anymore to for-profit shops.

            Modern CNC were holding value to the extent business conditions permitted.

            I've been watching an old WS turret lathe on local CL. Loaded with tooling, the seller started at $4500, now down to $1500. I expect he'll have to scrap it to get rid of it. Maybe even have to pay to clear it out. It's very heavy and in a rural location.

            CNC is where the action is now. Latest figures say 65% of job losses in the rust belt are due to automation. And, that number will only be going up. So, it is good times for manual machinery availability, if you can get to it before the scrapper. Even older CNC's are being scrapped. At my local scrap yard (500 pound minimum on steel to get paid) I saw several 20 year old looking CNC lathes up on a pile (no, they won't let you buy once onto the pile).
            Last edited by DR; 04-30-2017, 08:26 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DR View Post
              I've been watching an old WS turret lathe on local CL. Loaded with tooling, the seller started at $4500, now down to $1500. I expect he'll have to scrap it to get rid of it. Maybe even have to pay to clear it out. It's very heavy and in a rural location.
              At least he is lowering the price.
              I see the deluded of CL asking the same price, month after month for overpriced stuff that surprisingly never sells. LOL

              There is a guy that is trying to sell a used Wilton C3 vise for $1000 for over a year on the Portland CL. Every week or so he relists it to the top.
              Last edited by cijuanni; 04-30-2017, 10:38 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tundra Twin Track View Post
                That the pits seeing working machines scrapped,after seeing that pic very happy I saved my Varnamo Mill.At auction I was standing beside scrap dealer that bought it for $35.00 then I bought it from him next day while other pieces were scrap yard bound.
                God bless you, it is sinful what gets scrapped.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DR View Post
                  Yeah, at the height of the recession at a local shop auction the scrappers were out bidding the users on older non-CNC machinery. But, that's more reality than anything else, the fact is manual and non-CNC machinery doesn't have great value anymore to for-profit shops.

                  Modern CNC were holding value to the extent business conditions permitted.

                  I've been watching an old WS turret lathe on local CL. Loaded with tooling, the seller started at $4500, now down to $1500. I expect he'll have to scrap it to get rid of it. Maybe even have to pay to clear it out. It's very heavy and in a rural location.

                  CNC is where the action is now. Latest figures say 65% of job losses in the rust belt are due to automation. And, that number will only be going up. So, it is good times for manual machinery availability, if you can get to it before the scrapper. Even older CNC's are being scrapped. At my local scrap yard (500 pound minimum on steel to get paid) I saw several 20 year old looking CNC lathes up on a pile (no, they won't let you buy once onto the pile).
                  I posted a WS #3A for free with no takers.
                  "Let me recommend the best medicine in the
                  world: a long journey, at a mild season, through a pleasant
                  country, in easy stages."
                  ~ James Madison

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                  • #10
                    Trolling oldtiffie is it?
                    Len

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                    • #11
                      The larger, old machines are hard to sell. Any, for-profit shop will be looking at newer machines, probably CNC. It is simple economics. Smaller and home shops are just that, SMALLER. Even if I could actually get that beautiful machine that Tundra posted a photo of into my garage shop, it would leave no room for anything other than a small work bench in a corner. And I did say a SMALL one. I would have to toss out my lathes, drill presses, power saw, etc.

                      Smaller machines are easier to sell, even if they are 50 or more years old. Why? Because they will fit in a small shop or a garage. I found this out on E-bay years ago. Small machines were priced at $1000, $2000, $5000 and up. And they sold. Larger machines were priced around scrap value and they did not sell. So if you can find a way to shrink a 20" lathe down to 10 inches, then it will sell. Ditto for mills and almost any other machine.

                      There is probably some "rule of thumb" formula that relates the size of a shop building to the size of the work that can be done in it but I have never seen it expressed. Perhaps take the longest shop dimension and divide it by a factors like 6, 10, and 20 for the cardinal dimensions of the parts that can be produced there. Thus my 21' x 21' shop would be able to produce parts that are generally in a 42" x 25" x 12" envelope. Even that sounds a bit generous for my particular shop. I don't have any way of picking up a piece of even aluminum that is 12" in diameter and 42" long. But I guess I could install a hoist. Perhaps some planners do have a formula for this. Military perhaps? Or then perhaps there are too many variable factors.
                      Paul A.

                      Make it fit.
                      You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                        The larger, old machines are hard to sell. Any, for-profit shop will be looking at newer machines, probably CNC. It is simple economics. Smaller and home shops are just that, SMALLER. Even if I could actually get that beautiful machine that Tundra posted a photo of into my garage shop, it would leave no room for anything other than a small work bench in a corner. And I did say a SMALL one. I would have to toss out my lathes, drill presses, power saw, etc.

                        Smaller machines are easier to sell, even if they are 50 or more years old. Why? Because they will fit in a small shop or a garage. I found this out on E-bay years ago. Small machines were priced at $1000, $2000, $5000 and up. And they sold. Larger machines were priced around scrap value and they did not sell. So if you can find a way to shrink a 20" lathe down to 10 inches, then it will sell. Ditto for mills and almost any other machine.

                        There is probably some "rule of thumb" formula that relates the size of a shop building to the size of the work that can be done in it but I have never seen it expressed. Perhaps take the longest shop dimension and divide it by a factors like 6, 10, and 20 for the cardinal dimensions of the parts that can be produced there. Thus my 21' x 21' shop would be able to produce parts that are generally in a 42" x 25" x 12" envelope. Even that sounds a bit generous for my particular shop. I don't have any way of picking up a piece of even aluminum that is 12" in diameter and 42" long. But I guess I could install a hoist. Perhaps some planners do have a formula for this. Military perhaps? Or then perhaps there are too many variable factors.
                        You're right about smaller machines often being more valuable than larger ones. Like a guy that I used to work with told me about tractors. A John Deere 1020 is often worth more than a 4020 because lots of backyard farmers want a utility tractor but don't want a larger tractor and a real farmer can't function with a old 4020. Same for machine tools I guess.

                        Brian
                        OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                        THINK HARDER

                        BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                        MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tundra Twin Track View Post
                          That the pits seeing working machines scrapped,after seeing that pic very happy I saved my Varnamo Mill.At auction I was standing beside scrap dealer that bought it for $35.00 then I bought it from him next day while other pieces were scrap yard bound. Sorry for posting another pic of this thing ,but makes me grin every time I use it!
                          That is a sweet looking machine Tundra. I ran a few horizontals when I started my apprenticeship in the late 70's. The company got rid of them in the early 80's and everyone thought the sky was falling. We survived and put cnc's in place of them and never looked back. They will move some metal though.

                          Brian
                          OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                          THINK HARDER

                          BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                          MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't disagree with what has been said here, except that good manual lathes still command a premium. So do Bridgeports, even when worn or when they aren't as good as some of the knockoff mills.

                            For lathe value, key features seem to be sufficient speed to run carbide well, decent condition and lack of wear. Local market is also a factor. Sometimes you get lucky on deals, or find them because you look so long and so often. Like those robins who are always looking for bugs and worms - they make their own luck.

                            A lathe that only goes to 480 rpm? It's going to go cheap, unless it's a biggin'. Some lathes lack good lubrication systems (or maint is neglected), so they wear. Prosperous shops don't seem to keep worn machines around.

                            I saw a LeBlond 15x30 go for $2600 last week at a shop closure auction. They often go for more, sometimes for a bit less (that one was bought by the former machinist user, who had used it for many years).

                            As Paul implied, some lathes have a big footprint for their capacity. In some cases that is made worse by mandatory rear access to electrical cabinets. But some of the "bigger" machines are actually pretty compact.

                            I watched a big bore South Bend Heavy 10 last week almost sell for $340. The length was 4' and it had a D1-4 spindle, with a taper and collet closer. Nice machine, only 14 miles away. I goaded a friend into bidding it to 525 but then we let it go. Someone stole it. I normally only buy machines and tools I really want/need, but then I can't possibly let them go. This machine I did not need, which was key. It meant I could polish it up and then let it go - to fund tooling and drive components for my oh so hungry Monarch and Lodge & Shipley. There's also something to be said for being able to resist incredible deals once in a while... That was one of them. And seriously, another lathe? But but nice Heavy 10 with D1-4!! Ugh.

                            Not yet mentioned is how CNC machines become obsolete quite quickly. The controllers age even when not used. A fifty cent part can kill the machine. Finding someone with the skills to locate and replace that component.. You want to talk depreciation? I see so many dirt cheap CNC machines at auction. The controllers are old. It isn't clear if they work. And even if they do, they may no longer work once moved.

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                            • #15
                              I think spindle holes size, high speed, and threading range are big when it comes to lathe value.. Being able to thread metric and standard without changing gears us big for me..
                              I think BP type milks are popular for home, because you can get it in the basement.. Bit of work, but I would not want to move Tundras Varnamo down a staircase.

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