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  • #46
    Originally posted by hermetic View Post
    as anyone from the UK who has travelled anywhere in Europe will tell you what a far superior system the UK has since the introduction of the BS1363 13amp plug and socket .
    Superior? how?
    Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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    • #47
      BS1363 introduced the worlds first shuttered socket ( Although there was an earlier shuttered socket, and a fused plug, introduced by Crompton also in the UK), meaning it was impossible to insert anything in to the holes unles it was a plug, and provided a plug with a fuse , the rating of which matched the appliance it was fitted to. This combination of one size plug and socket for all appliances was introdued in 1947, and is still in use today.
      Man who say it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

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      • #48
        Yes, and plugs with a generous earth pin, which ensures that live and neutral cannot be reversed. Some other systems still do not follow this principle.
        Bill

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        • #49
          Originally posted by hermetic View Post
          BS1363 introduced the worlds first shuttered socket ( Although there was an earlier shuttered socket, and a fused plug, introduced by Crompton also in the UK), meaning it was impossible to insert anything in to the holes unles it was a plug, and provided a plug with a fuse , the rating of which matched the appliance it was fitted to. This combination of one size plug and socket for all appliances was introdued in 1947, and is still in use today.
          OK, you got the shuttered sockets early on and that's good, in here they have been common only for last 20 years or so.

          AFAIK UK plug fuse is to protect the appliance cord, not the appliance itself because your crazy big ring circuit fuses. In rest of the world we don't need plug fuses since we have branch wiring with 10A or 16A fuses vs. 30A or sometimes 60A fuses used in UK ring wiring circuit.
          Claimed benefit of the UK system is less copper needed in ring wiring vs. branch wiring, probably somewhat true but I am not sure how big the savings are...

          Live and neutral reversion protection sounds good in theory but I don't see that as a big deal after all?(save 5 pennies on single pole switch instead of 2-pole?)
          Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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          • #50
            The fuse in the plug protects the cord and the appliance, and is sized specifically to the appliance it is fitted to. In your system, a table lamp, which we would fuse at 3 amps, you would connect to a circuit fused to 10A or 16A. UK ring main circuits are always fused at 30 amps, or have a 32 amp circuit breaker, thus individual appliances are protected by the fuse in the plug, and the ring main itself is protected by the 30A fuse, or the 32 amp circuit breaker. Ensuring correct polarity connection is vital for safety, though not as much as it used to be in the days of valve radios and amplifiers wher, if the plug was inserted the wrong way round, the chassis of the amp or radio would be live at the supply voltage. Many musicans have been killed this way!!
            Man who say it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by hermetic View Post
              Ensuring correct polarity connection is vital for safety, though not as much as it used to be in the days of valve radios and amplifiers wher, if the plug was inserted the wrong way round, the chassis of the amp or radio would be live at the supply voltage. Many musicans have been killed this way!!
              Yes - reversed polarity was a big safety issue and still is in countries that don't use polarised plugs universally.

              Another plus is that 13amp plugs are very robust. You can't easily bend the pins on one of these, but it is ridiculously easy to do so on some other nations plugs.
              Bill

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              • #52
                Originally posted by willmac View Post
                Yes - reversed polarity was a big safety issue and still is in countries that don't use polarised plugs universally.

                Another plus is that 13amp plugs are very robust. You can't easily bend the pins on one of these, but it is ridiculously easy to do so on some other nations plugs.
                Whaat? Anything with live chassis is now probably at least 60 years old and even those were reasonably safe by standards of that time if they were designed for "non-polarized plug" countries.
                Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by hermetic View Post
                  ....... Ensuring correct polarity connection is vital for safety, though not as much as it used to be in the days of valve radios and amplifiers where, if the plug was inserted the wrong way round, the chassis of the amp or radio would be live at the supply voltage. Many musicans have been killed this way!!
                  That is SO out of date everywhere...... There is no national standard I am aware of that will accept a connection of the chassis to the neutral, and has not been for at least 60 years.

                  EVERY standard treats the neutral as a live wire, with the same insulation requirements as the nominal hot wire. In countries using Schuko plugs, there is no polarizing, the plug goes in either way. The US has had polarized plugs for a long time, on anything that is not double insulated. Many double-insulated items still have different sized prongs. And, anything not double insulated will have a 3 wire plug that is self-polarizing.

                  Most cases of problems with musical equipment have been due to using 2 wire plugs, AND having the "polarizing" switch. That switch connects a capacitor to either the hot or neutral conductor, the other end of the capacitor goes to the chassis. In old equipment, those capacitors were not UL recognized safety types, and would short sometimes. Obviously that could make the chassis "hot". That is also not permitted, nor has it been for at least 40 years.

                  These days, about the only function of the polarized plug is to make sure the center pin on a lamp socket is the hot connection (and NOT the outer screw portion).
                  CNC machines only go through the motions.

                  Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                  Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                  Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                  I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                  Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    These days, about the only function of the polarized plug is to make sure the center pin on a lamp socket is the hot connection (and NOT the outer screw portion).
                    Not true. Some wallwarts have polarized plugs, presumably to prevent you from plugging more than one into a duplex outlet.
                    Location: Long Island, N.Y.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                      These days, about the only function of the polarized plug is to make sure the center pin on a lamp socket is the hot connection (and NOT the outer screw portion).
                      Which was never an issue with the UK's two-pin bayonet cap sockets. Unfortunately, the inferior Edison screw fitting is becoming more and more common in the UK on cheap imported goods.

                      George

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