Spring type, firm joint...opinions

[shorty]

new guy here,
I need to find accurate measuring tools and was wondering what thoughts were had on using spring type calipers, firm joint calipers and or inside/outside mics.
As well, is it possible to get accurate, consistant measurements using a caliper and then reading it with a vernier or micrometer.
The main reason I'm asking is that mics, verniers etc... are expensive as heck where as spring type and firm joint calipers aren't however, I realize that accuracy is what machining is all about so is a guy commited to spending the big buck to be accurate??
Shorty

[Rotate]

You can get imported (made in China) calipers and micrometers for very low price. My local supplier sell them for less than $20 each when they go on sale. Compare to the brand name products, they certainly don't have the smoothness nor the finish, however they are remarkably accurate considering their price. Very usuable.

Albert

[Peter Sanders]

Hi Shorty

The accuracy of all the devices you note is to a great extent controlled by the operator. They are all capable of accurate (or inaccurate) measurement.

While it may be harder to set a firm joint caliper by .001, you can still "feel" the .001 difference when measuring something with it.

Practice with these devices increases your own ability to measure accurately.

Regards

Peter

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by shorty:
new guy here,
I need to find accurate measuring tools and was wondering what thoughts were had on using spring type calipers, firm joint calipers and or inside/outside mics.
As well, is it possible to get accurate, consistant measurements using a caliper and then reading it with a vernier or micrometer.
The main reason I'm asking is that mics, verniers etc... are expensive as heck where as spring type and firm joint calipers aren't however, I realize that accuracy is what machining is all about so is a guy commited to spending the big buck to be accurate??
Shorty </font>

------------------
Kind regards

Peter

[Thrud]

shorty:
What you are asking is exactly what was done by the craftsmen of old. It can be done, but it is easier to use modern equipment. You can do anything if you really believe in your own capabilities. You can find large micrometers on eBay very cheaply - most people do not require them so they sell for less than they really should. Albert has an excellent suggestion about the low cost imports - another alternative, but not top drawer tools usually.

Have fun, play safe.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 05-22-2002).]

[shorty]

Thanx thrud.
I'm only 38 years old but I believe that "old school" principles are still the best. The isncludes from work ethics to neccessity being the mother of invention. I imagine that the learning curve will be a little longer using less than modern tools but what the heck. Probably get a better feel in the long run for the art itself. By the way, you machinist type guys are definitely artists in the mind of this humble weldor.

[docn8as]

Shorty.....unlike dial calipers, B&S./starret verniers are "dead nuts" ..... a 6 in will take the place of a set of mikes for most work ....beleive i can interpolate mine to .0005 ....also easier for ME to get an accurate reading on work in lathe w/ vernier., also not NEAR as fragile ...buuuuuuut slower!...if i am sleeving ,press fits ,etc., i always go to the mike....but can be done w/file ,emery& trial fits ,as it used to be!!!..have 6 ,12, & 24 in .verneirs .....6 inchers on e bay for 12to 15 dollars w/ case ...spring calipers are still handy & can grind them for thrd calipering............when i got my antique lathe running , i decided to make a part the old way ..spring caliper.rule & no dials on feed ...took forever ,but did it ..u can easily feel .001 w/ spring cal.( probably less ).........picked up 1-4 slocum mikes on ebay w/ little wear & accurate for 21 bucks+ shipping ....take ur time B&S,lufkin, ,slocumb are fine & as good or better than starret!nothing wrong w/ "U.S." made Craftsman either
best wishes
docn8as

[Peter S]

Shorty,
Give yourself a break, and forget about those old "measure by feel" methods. There is nothing wrong with using some good measuring tools. I can't bring myself to buy Chinese tools, but I have seen some stuff sold locally that looks fine quality-wise and is cheap. You won't prove anything really by using those old calipery things, they don't really go with trying to do a good machining job. I think its a bit like disconnecting your lathe motor and fitting a treadle..why?
Get some external micrometers, telescopic gauges and vernier calipers and you can do almost anything!

[SGW]

Using calipers accurately requires a lot of practice to get the "feel," and higher-quality calipers (e.g. Starrett, B&S) does make it easier, I think. Same for telescoping gages and such.

If you feel like learning the skill -- good for you! Modern measuring tools are easier to use accurately, but I too enjoy learning skills that as a practical matter may be "obsolete." It's a hobby -- the idea is to enjoy it, in whatever form that may take for you. Traditional woodworkers revel in using hand planes, for instance.

[metal mite]

Shorty,
How accurate do you need to be?
Those spring calipers are good to .002 maybe?
Just like anything else, you need good quality spring calipers, not those loose joint, made over somewhere, 0", to 12" for $2.99 sets.
Starrett, Union, or B & S should be ok.
I'd suggest mics up to 3", a 6" dial venier, and a good quality 12" venier.
Also good starrett telescoping gages to 2.5" or so, and last word, or best test type indicator, and base.
mite

[halfnut]

Best mics made in my opinion are older made in US, B&S slantlines. OK, I'm predujiced. Next best are Starretts. But there are lots of other mics that aren't as well known and of good quality. Lufkin, Tulmiko, Central, come to mind. Then there are the top quality Jap mics, Mitutoyo's are very popular. Next step down are the Polish made mics. Last are the chinese mics, hey they work and are accurate, cheap too.

Telescope guages are much easier to use than spring calipers, but there are times that a set of spring calipers are the only thing that will work. Try measuring the depth of a groove with a telescope gage, cheap inside calipers are great for this, bend the tips to match recess. Outside calipers are also great for those odd jobs, can have tips ground and used to compare thread fits and such.

I like Starrett Fay pattern the best, Yankee pattern the next. I've seen some Harbor Freight calipers that were OK. I don't like the firm joints unless they have a fine adjuster.

Vernier calipers are generally dead on, much cheaper than dials. But the cheap dials are as good as the best ones were several years ago. B&S dials are my favorite, and they cost less today than they did 20 years ago.

Get a better set of telescope gages, the cheap ones are a pain, I wouldn't wish them off on anyone. Best set I ever used was a set of Fuji's.

Ebay has lots of bargains if you shop carefully and are patient.

[halfnut]

One more thing, spring calipers can be used to measure hole very accurately, down to a thousands. Takes a good feel and lots of practice. Remember, no drag, no looseness. This is the way to use calipers.

Inside calipers are the quickest way there is to set a snap ring grooving tool from a shoulder. Lots of uses for old fashioned tools. I love my surface gage also.

[shorty]

Well what a day.....
I found a set of outside spring calipers at work and tried to turn a piece accurately to within .001......I think there's a time in everyones life when change is not only good , but absolutely neccessary.
I've got a good 12" vernier and a 0-1" mic so I think the first thing I'll invest in will be a set of inside diameter gauges. Look out ebay here I come.
I'm still coing to screw around with the spring type calipers but I need to be consistant so I'll have to rely on technology (and of course give myself a little "tool junkie" fix).
Thanx all,
Shorty

[Thrud]

shorty:
Word of advise about eBay: Know what you want first, and find out how much it cost new. Nothing will frost your arse faster than discovering the "Great Deal" you got on eBay could have been bought new for less!!

Forewarned is forarmed. Wait to put your maximum bid in near the very end of the auction and make sure you read the buyer's rules before bidding. Patience here will get you beautiful tools for far less than new. Don't get hot and bothered about an item you want badly and over bid just because "you gotta have it" - another will come along (probably better too!) - patience!