ON/OFF Button Placement Convention

[old mart]

A couple of years ago, two nice young ladies from Health and Safety visited the museum. It was clear they were well out of their depth, most likely being used to inspecting shops and restaurants.
The mill had reasonably accessible stop switches but the Smart & Brown model A was not so good.
We fitted a hinged chuck guard with a cam arrangement working an industrial microswitch in series with the stop switch.
Every time I want to stop the lathe, I just lift the guard about an inch. I love it, it saves 50% of the bending to reach the switch.
As for the H&S ladies, when we told them that we had radium, uranium, thorium and tritium, they went away to do their homework and we haven't seen them since, too much bother maybe.

[Paul Alciatore]

I was hoping to limit the discussion here to the single aspect of switch placement. I have and am discussing the overall project here on the SB board:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/sb-9-adding-contactor-115vac-vs-24v-control-circuit-335032/

If you read that thread you will see that my first need was for a better way to cut the power off on my lathe bench as the drum switch, which I AM KEEPING at the present time, is too exposed to accidental activation. My second desire was to be able to add some E-Stop buttons at additional locations around the bench for emergencies. My design accomplishes both. Because it will provide the E-Stop function, I also wanted it to be as reliable as possible. And the location of the main control is not important because there will be those additional E-Stop buttons. I will probably be talking about that when the main box is finished and installed.

If you want to discuss the other details I would suggest you to to that thread.

I shall publish the details in some form or another when the project is finished.

I like that switch. Of course UK switches are up for off and down for on anything else is weird
"above and behind the lathe" NO. In UK regulations for kitchen wiring require the master switch for the oven/hob to be definitely not behind the hob. Why? Obvious really if there is a problem, eg chip pan fire you don't want to have to reach over it to get to the off switch. Same logic applies to lathe.
If you are getting a NVR switch it is worth finding a version that allows access to the relay feed to wire in additional safety switches. Now I'm not going all ninny about switches on the chuck guard and changewheel guards but suggest a foot bar or other big easy to hit emergency stop.

[wombat2go]

Yes, no definite answer there. They seem more interested in the colors rather than the relative locations. I am stuck with Red and Green buttons as that is what came in the box I purchased.

As to the cost of that IEC standard document, I wonder just how an organization expects people to follow their standards when they price them out of sight. Somehow it just does not seem to make any sense.

Here is a link to on line copy of the UK version from 2006.

http://www.infoplc.net/files/documentacion/seguridad_normativa/infoplc_net_200941458485281.pdf

From a quick reading, the relative positions do not seem to be stipulated.
When doing a search of photo stock for control panels, all orientations can be seen although start on top seems most common as many on here mentioned.
Back in the pre HMI days, when I was involved with controls, the larger companies ( eg paper and steel) often had their own specs for layout, even down to brands. That was to help the operators go from one process line to another

[Noitoen]

Schneider Electric has a single hole start stop with indicator light and the start is on top. http://www.alliedelec.com/schneider-...31g5/70380022/

On my lathe, since the I have no clutch, I moved the fwd/rev to the carriage and installed a wide brake/stop pedal. I can just stop with a light press of the pedal or apply the disc brake by pressing harder. Very useful for threading.

[Baz]

I like that switch. Of course UK switches are up for off and down for on anything else is weird
"above and behind the lathe" NO. In UK regulations for kitchen wiring require the master switch for the oven/hob to be definitely not behind the hob. Why? Obvious really if there is a problem, eg chip pan fire you don't want to have to reach over it to get to the off switch. Same logic applies to lathe.
If you are getting a NVR switch it is worth finding a version that allows access to the relay feed to wire in additional safety switches. Now I'm not going all ninny about switches on the chuck guard and changewheel guards but suggest a foot bar or other big easy to hit emergency stop.

[lugnut]

When the switch on my Grizzly lathe died, I ordered this one from Amazon, I think it was about $10 and I really like it. I don't have to even look at it to find STOP, can't miss it.

[darryl]

Yup, that's what I mostly see, and I like it like that.

[JRouche]

In industry for motors the convention is start over stop. Since the start is normally recessed and the stop extended your hand is covering the stop when pushing start and you can just mash your hand down to hit stop.

This is the Standard that I have seen, working with sheetmetal machines. Shielded Greens have been the norm for awhile. JR

[Paul Alciatore]

Lets not get into that now.

This opens a whole kettle of worms. Does the ground pin on a receptacle go up or down? I have seen both. From what I have seen on British test equipment, the power toggle switch was up for off. Are wall switches that way in the UK?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Paul Alciatore]

Funny you should mention that. As I said above, my Grizzly mill does have the Red/Stop button above the Green/Start one. And I do not like it. When I first got the machine I opened up the control box with the intention of swapping them. Until I saw the mad tangle of wires in there anyway. It would take me a week to sort them all out. Worst example of wiring I have ever seen.

Anyway, that is part of why I am asking this question. Personally, I would much prefer ON above OFF. It does seem more natural, but then the Grizzly was made in China.

Paul,if you find having the ON button on top to be more logical, I think that's the way you should mount. I think you will find it will make hitting the correct button every time a little easier. Of course if your next machine comes with on/off buttons wired differently, you won't be happy until you switch them to be the same configuration.

[Paul Alciatore]

Yes, no definite answer there. They seem more interested in the colors rather than the relative locations. I am stuck with Red and Green buttons as that is what came in the box I purchased.

As to the cost of that IEC standard document, I wonder just how an organization expects people to follow their standards when they price them out of sight. Somehow it just does not seem to make any sense.

Paul , looks like it is covered by IEC 60204-1 and NFPA 79
Page 23 of this from Cutler Hammer:

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@electrical/documents/content/vol12_tab23.pdf

and this from Schneider:

http://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/en/faqs/FA28043/

Neither completely answers your query.
The IEC standard itself costs $300 or so !
Regards

[darryl]

Hmm- the UK has Lucas- probably doesn't matter which way the switch goes.

[6PTsocket]

This opens a whole kettle of worms. Does the ground pin on a receptacle go up or down? I have seen both. From what I have seen on British test equipment, the power toggle switch was up for off. Are wall switches that way in the UK?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Arcane]

Paul,if you find having the ON button on top to be more logical, I think that's the way you should mount. I think you will find it will make hitting the correct button every time a little easier. Of course if your next machine comes with on/off buttons wired differently, you won't be happy until you switch them to be the same configuration.

[PStechPaul]

It is offensive to the Irish to have red on top of green, so we have this: