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  • Any Networking Experts Around ??? OT a little

    I know there has to be some of you guys out there that know more about networking than the simple techs at Verizon do.
    To keep it simple, here is the issue. I have the Verizon Quantum router, I have 10 wireless security cameras that connect to it.
    Up until mid March all worked fine and have been for almost a year. Now I have a camera that randomly drops out of the network. I've been back and forth with the camera co. people and they as well as I figured the camera was flaky. So they sent me a new one and it does the same thing, so it's got to be in the router, I can't figure out what is causing this and neither can the advanced tech people from ActionTech that I talked to. One tech told me that the router will only handle 10 wireless devices, well hell it worked fine before and aside from the 10 cameras there are a couple laptops and phones and set top boxes that are using IP's. This router is supposed to be able to handle like up to 200 users, and 200 users is 200 wireless devices. Perhaps an update back in March changed things.??
    Here is the funny part....... If I reboot the router, turn the camera off and turn it back on it comes back on line, and sometimes if I walk in front of it or trip the motion detect it will pop back on line, I'm at a loss.

    JL......................
    Last edited by JoeLee; 06-11-2017, 08:10 PM.

  • #2
    We found when running a wireless ISP in the UK that most wireless problems could be put down to interference from other equipment on the same or similar frequencies. Here is a rough list to get you started, we found that all of this equipment interfered with all 80211 signals. Microwave ovens, wireless baby alarms, other wireless cameara and remote monitoring systems, wirelessly operated perimeter gates and door camera/unlock systems, wireless tv/video systems etc etc. Problem is, very often they were in another building. Does the failure happen repeatedly at certain times of day, or is it truly random. Does it coincide with any activity seen on camera. The bit about triggering movement detection putting the camera back on line is a clue to the fact that it may have been put off line by a more powerful signal in close proximity to the camera, that has stopped when you trigger the movement detection. Is the camera in question the most remote in the network? Can you attach an extended antenna to your router? Make sure there is nothing mettalic in line of sight between antennas and cameras. Regardless of what others will tell you, all this equipment works best when LOS between units is unobstructed. The signals will bounce round corners, but loses approx 25% signal strength with each bounce. trees and sharp corners en route will absorb or scatter the signal. Hope you can pick the bones out of this, and that some of it helps!
    Phil
    UK
    Man who say it cannot be done should not disturb man doing it! https://www.youtube.com/user/philhermetic/videos?

    Comment


    • #3
      Nothing to do with your camera problem per se, but what Phil describes hits home with me and a recent issue I've had. I got a new VOM not long ago with all the bells and whistles (bluetooth, data logging etc.) and thought I was having a problem with the NCV (non-contact voltage) function of the meter. It seemed to alert to voltages being present where there was none. Random stuff like a metal file cabinet, books, empty cardboard boxes and the like.

      I contacted the manufacturer about it and received a response from the Director of New Product Development. He suggested that one possible reason for this was that I possibly had knob and tube wiring hidden somewhere in my house. (I don't.) He said that due to "separation of the phases" ie the distance between the hot and neutral wires in the old knob and tube wiring would put off a fair amount of EMF, and THAT is what the NCV sensor on the meter was picking up. I more or less shrugged it off because I know the wiring in my house and what it is.

      Later I tried the same tests with 2 other meters and got the SAME results! All of this was happening at/around my computer desk so I started disconnecting things. Power to the computers, printers, network hub, desk lamp..... no change. The only thing still plugged into the wall outlet was my cross-cut paper shredder. Unplugged the shredder and BINGO! No more random alerts on any of the meters.

      My paper shredder sits under my desk right next to the small metal file cabinet. The books and boxes that were showing "voltage" were sitting on top of the desk. So apparently the file cabinet was reflecting the EMF to other objects around it. That was a first for me - and a lesson in outside interference that I will never forget. I hope you get your camera issue sorted out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Try this: Take the new camera and set it up on a table somewhere in the same room with the wireless router. This will insure that it's signal is the strongest signal hitting the router. See if it still has problems.

        Are you recording the video from these cameras or streaming the video to a real time monitor such that they are always broadcasting? If several of the cameras are near each other it might help to move them to different non-overlapping channels if possible.

        As said previously, microwave ovens and some cordless phones can wreck havoc with stuff running on 802.11. Distance from interference sources matters greatly. In addition, some of the less expensive wireless cameras use either on-board or on-chip Wi-Fi antennas. these have radiation patterns that are fairly directional. This may not apply in your case.

        Most wireless routers also have Ethernet connections on the back. 200 users does not necessarily mean 200 WIRELESS users although modern routers can handle a LOT more than 10 simultaneous wireless users.

        Comment


        • #5
          To answer some of the questions..............
          The manufacturer says they have people running up to 24 cameras with no issues. I only have 10 and the one doesn't seem to drop out if I leave one turned off, I've tried it a few times. It seems that the tenth camera causes the problem.

          The tech people have checked my router and said that there are no conflicts or problems that they can detect.
          The camera that drops out is in the next room from the router and at least 8 feet from the camera on the other side of the wall.
          The manufacturer recommends a minimum spacing of 4 feet.

          As I mentioned in my first post, all these cams were working 100% back in the beginning of March. I didn't notice this until about the end of March.
          I know the router updates automatically and I'm trying to see if I can find out when the last update was.

          Some of these tech know less than I do about any of this stuff.

          JL................

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Joe,
            Did you examine the router log?
            The one here has checkboxes for activities to be logged, and one is to log all wireless login and logout, like this::

            [WLAN access allowed] from MAC: 8C:CD:E8:XX:XX:XX, Monday, Jun 12,2017 09:43:55


            Another suggestion if not done, is to go to "Lan setup" (or similar) in your router and assign each camera a static ip.
            Than might help to see what is going on.
            Last edited by wombat2go; 06-12-2017, 01:58 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Intermittent problems can have so many sources, and many fall under the heading of "interference". The interference can be radio waves, electrical (EMF), IP addresses, IP routing and even a simple "power saving mode".

              Sitting here in my chair I see 10 wifi channels in use, and as many as 3 APs (access points) on the same channel. Each end of the house shows a different assortment. There are some channels where 3 AP signals are about equal strength. A laptop connected to one of those will be frequently hunting for a connection. I use the "wifi analyzer" app to check the radios around my installation.

              EMF is just hard to find. It can be anywhere.

              IP addresses can be tricky. If you assign a static (permanent) address to your camera that is also in the DHCP tables of your AP, that address may be assigned to another device too. When one sends out a packet, the router part of the AP will think that packets for that address should go there instead of the camera.

              Power saving is a nice thing for a laptop where you don't need the wireless signal until you actually want to surf the web. It's not such a nice thing for a camera or printer that you may want to access at any time of the day or night.

              Dan
              At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

              Location: SF East Bay.

              Comment


              • #8
                See if your router can display the active connections. One device can open many connections. If you use a download accelerator or peer-to-peer file sharing program like BitTorrent, then you may be exceeding the router's limit.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Check your traffic logs make sure you are not infected. The IOT (Internet of Things) stuff has huge security holes. Google it and check your model of cameras. Cameras are the worse offenders so far for botnets and malware.

                  http://www.pcworld.com/article/31957...nown-flaw.html

                  http://www.zdnet.com/article/120000-...y-researchers/

                  https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/...ternet-outage/

                  https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0...ai_iot_botnet/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wombat2go View Post
                    Hi Joe,
                    Did you examine the router log?
                    The one here has checkboxes for activities to be logged, and one is to log all wireless login and logout, like this::

                    [WLAN access allowed] from MAC: 8C:CD:E8:XX:XX:XX, Monday, Jun 12,2017 09:43:55


                    Another suggestion if not done, is to go to "Lan setup" (or similar) in your router and assign each camera a static ip.
                    Than might help to see what is going on.
                    Yes I did check the log, but it's in gibberish.........
                    Each camera's IP was made static at the time they were installed, nothing has changed there.
                    They had to be done this way because I access them from my phone outside my WIFI and if the cams change IP's I woildn't be able to find them.

                    JL..............

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by danlb View Post
                      Intermittent problems can have so many sources, and many fall under the heading of "interference". The interference can be radio waves, electrical (EMF), IP addresses, IP routing and even a simple "power saving mode".

                      Sitting here in my chair I see 10 wifi channels in use, and as many as 3 APs (access points) on the same channel. Each end of the house shows a different assortment. There are some channels where 3 AP signals are about equal strength. A laptop connected to one of those will be frequently hunting for a connection. I use the "wifi analyzer" app to check the radios around my installation.

                      EMF is just hard to find. It can be anywhere.

                      IP addresses can be tricky. If you assign a static (permanent) address to your camera that is also in the DHCP tables of your AP, that address may be assigned to another device too. When one sends out a packet, the router part of the AP will think that packets for that address should go there instead of the camera.

                      Power saving is a nice thing for a laptop where you don't need the wireless signal until you actually want to surf the web. It's not such a nice thing for a camera or printer that you may want to access at any time of the day or night.

                      Dan
                      No feature like this in the camera's software.

                      JL............

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pinstripe View Post
                        See if your router can display the active connections. One device can open many connections. If you use a download accelerator or peer-to-peer file sharing program like BitTorrent, then you may be exceeding the router's limit.
                        The router does display active connections in the connection list. There are no conflicts that I can see.

                        JL................

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                          They had to be done this way because I access them from my phone outside my WIFI and if the cams change IP's I woildn't be able to find them.
                          H380 mentioned IoT vulnerabilities above. Your cameras should be relatively safe if hidden behind your firewall, but not if they are somehow directly reachable over the internet (say with a port forwarded to a specific IP address). Do you connect to the router with a VPN (encrypted connection) from outside and then connect to a camera, or can you reach the cameras directly from the internet?

                          If it's the latter, then I would rethink your network security.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Most probably you need a new router. If it's been awhile your ISP will usually give you one.

                            metalmagpie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pinstripe View Post
                              H380 mentioned IoT vulnerabilities above. Your cameras should be relatively safe if hidden behind your firewall, but not if they are somehow directly reachable over the internet (say with a port forwarded to a specific IP address). Do you connect to the router with a VPN (encrypted connection) from outside and then connect to a camera, or can you reach the cameras directly from the internet?

                              If it's the latter, then I would rethink your network security.
                              Not sure exactly what your saying?? Each cam has a port forward number so I can access them from anywhere with my phone. The have passwords. How would any one find them??

                              JL.......

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