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Poll: Would you buy reground import tooling?

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  • Poll: Would you buy reground import tooling?

    I have noticed there's a gap between Chinese import setup tooling, and the good stuff like Taft Pierce, Suburban, etc.

    Do you believe there is a market for reground precision setup tooling like angle plates and small vises?

    I have a nice surface grinder in my shop and I'd like to make a few bucks in my shop. I could pick up some $40 angle plates from shars, regrind them to .0002 per six inches (or whatever tolerance you specify) and make a profit while still selling it to you for a great price. Obviously I'll have no control over metal quality or stability, but I've never really had an issue with it personally.

    Let me know your thoughts! I could also regrind your existing tooling.

    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

  • #2
    Originally posted by Andre3127 View Post
    I have noticed there's a gap between Chinese import setup tooling, and the good stuff like Taft Pierce, Suburban, etc.

    Do you believe there is a market for reground precision setup tooling like angle plates and small vises?

    I have a nice surface grinder in my shop and I'd like to make a few bucks in my shop. I could pick up some $40 angle plates from shars, regrind them to .0002 per six inches (or whatever tolerance you specify) and make a profit while still selling it to you for a great price. Obviously I'll have no control over metal quality or stability, but I've never really had an issue with it personally.

    Let me know your thoughts! I could also regrind your existing tooling.

    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
    I don't live in a machine tool or tooling desert. I've had no problem buying used quality parallels, angle block, tunnel blocks, etc. I've reground those that needed it.
    There was a Pa. seller on Evilbay who was buying used American made setup tooling, regrinding and selling it. I don't know if there would be any market for reground Chinese stuff.

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    • #3
      I buy some reground milling cutters, both hss and carbide. Using a manual mill, it doesn't matter too much if the diameter is down a bit.
      I bought a couple of Kennametal solid carbide 4 flute end mills recently, reground and recoated by Kennametal, originally 12mm, they are now 11.5mm, no bother to me at 1/5 of the rrp.
      The reground cutters that I have bought have all been British, German or USA manufactured quality products.

      Restoring pairs of worn vee blocks and parallels would always be usefull as they don't have to be fixed sizes, just matching sizes.
      Last edited by old mart; 06-16-2017, 01:22 PM.

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      • #4
        Hi,

        Like everything else that is bought and sold, it depends on what you want to charge for your labor. After that, can you guarantee that any angle plate you sell is +/-.0002" per 6"? If you can't you won't do well at all.

        Dalee
        If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by dalee100 View Post
          Hi,

          Like everything else that is bought and sold, it depends on what you want to charge for your labor. After that, can you guarantee that any angle plate you sell is +/-.0002" per 6"? If you can't you won't do well at all.

          Dalee
          I dont have a metrology lab and most of us here don't either, but I do have a good surface plate and metroligy equipment in a fairly controlled climate room.

          I could setup some kind of deal where if you prove what I ground isn't within spec I'll refund labor or pay to have it shipped back and fourth to be reground again.

          I was thinking for a $34+sh Shars 4x5x6 "universal right angle iron" could be sold for ~$150 once ground to .0002". Suburban sells them for $257 and they're only machined to .0005".

          Any bolt hole pattern could also be added for clamping at a slightly added cost.

          All castings would also be deflashed, but I won't spend time to make them pretty. That's up to you.

          Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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          • #6
            It depends who you are and what is your reputation? Why is someone going to pay $45 for your item when they can get one for $40 just because you put some figures in an advert. Unless they know you are a well known precision machine shop that has built up a reputation over years then I can put up an advert for the same thing with and extra decimal point and beat you by a dollar. If a buyer wants to question my accuracy claim they've got to find me first.
            It is amusing and sad when newbie 'experts' wave the photocopied 'test sheet' for their Chinese lathe and start talking about Schlesinger limits.

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            • #7
              I think there would be some market to those who want a good level of accuracy, but don't own or have access to a surface grinder. You have to start somewhere. Make a web page, get your name out there, and build a reputation. Maybe you could partner with Little Machine shop or NYCNC or someone else. If you want to do it, do it. There is no try, there is only do or do not.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Andre3127 View Post

                Do you believe there is a market for reground precision setup tooling like angle plates and small vises?
                imo, no. Biggest issue is brand - the work you do may be great, but try and get anyone to believe it with their pocket book. You'd have to make a very big effort at that first. Next is sales channel/distribution....something like ebay takes care of part of it...but you're still a guy selling out of a your garage which gets discounted over something listed in a catalogue.

                Do an experiment. Take a small China angle plate, grind it to a tenth and put it up on the classifieds. I'd bet being a guy selling it out of the garage you'd have a tough time selling it for what you paid for it, let alone for the value added.

                All based on my sense of human nature....go ahead and prove me wrong
                Last edited by Mcgyver; 06-16-2017, 10:55 PM.
                .

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baz View Post
                  It depends who you are and what is your reputation? Why is someone going to pay $45 for your item when they can get one for $40 just because you put some figures in an advert. Unless they know you are a well known precision machine shop that has built up a reputation over years then I can put up an advert for the same thing with and extra decimal point and beat you by a dollar. If a buyer wants to question my accuracy claim they've got to find me first.
                  It is amusing and sad when newbie 'experts' wave the photocopied 'test sheet' for their Chinese lathe and start talking about Schlesinger limits.
                  Check out my Instagram @andre_shop3127

                  Im not here to screw you, I would do everything possible to make sure you get what you pay for. For instance, I could serial number each one and provide a video of final inspection, surface finish, etc.

                  I'm not a professional grinder hand, but I'd like to help some of those who require nicer tooling without wanting to pay for a name brand. It's not like I'm making a fortune here, something like $10 an hour at the grinder.

                  That square V block got ground to 50 millionths in squareness per side, and the vise is within .00015" in squareness and parallelism.


                  Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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                  • #10
                    Don't mind the waves in the photo, those are caused by the tube lights messing with the camera. This is an example of surface finish you could expect.

                    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Andre3127 View Post
                      That square V block got ground to 50 millionths in squareness per side, and the vise is within .00015" in squareness and parallelism.
                      measured off a chinese surface plate? No idea if the plate is chinese or not.....just saying....if you are representing accuracy tolerances for something you are selling, you better have proper calibrated metrology equipment
                      .

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                      • #12
                        How will your quality/price compare to the good import tooling though? The Taiwanese stuff is not horribly expensive here, and most of it is pretty good.

                        Originally posted by Andre3127 View Post
                        I could setup some kind of deal where if you prove what I ground isn't within spec I'll refund labor or pay to have it shipped back and fourth to be reground again.
                        This bit doesn't sound very workable. What are you going to do when someone tells you that your grind is out, and they can prove it with the $10 indicator they bought off eBay? Someone using this service isn't going to pay to have an item calibrated by a lab.

                        Mcgyver makes a good point. I think you need to rebrand the products as your own, otherwise it's still just a Shars plate. How does price compare if you import them directly from China?

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                        • #13
                          Here is a screenshot from my Instagram page. This is a 5x10 steel plate I ground using a 150i wheel. It's sitting vertically with a bunch of ground blocks wring to it. I have measured it to less than .0002" against my surface plate, and I think that's pretty good for no coolant and such a fine wheel and its breakdown. It's very handy to have a small portable surface plate around the shop.

                          Thought some of you might enjoy this one.

                          Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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                          • #14
                            To the OP:
                            Who exactly do you think is your market? How much demand is there for "tuned-up" Chinese tooling?
                            What's your time worth?
                            I think a grinder without coolant is a non-starter.
                            Last edited by reggie_obe; 06-16-2017, 02:11 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pinstripe View Post
                              How will your quality/price compare to the good import tooling though? The Taiwanese stuff is not horribly expensive here, and most of it is pretty good.



                              This bit doesn't sound very workable. What are you going to do when someone tells you that your grind is out, and they can prove it with the $10 indicator they bought off eBay? Someone using this service isn't going to pay to have an item calibrated by a lab.

                              Mcgyver makes a good point. I think you need to rebrand the products as your own, otherwise it's still just a Shars plate. How does price compare if you import them directly from China?
                              What Taiwanese tooling have you been buying? I have had terrible luck with the stuff, it's almost never square or ground with a good finish.



                              Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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